need some info on little ireland beagles.
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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gamekeeper
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:40 pm
- Location: N.H.
Wrong
When i went to old toms, Virginia home was to return the first lemon he sent as he said shipping must have permanently terrified the dog so i drove their and returned him ,and took a replacement which was the only alternative.He had a large pen of young pups 8 to 10 weeks that were afraid of their shadow .i never had beagle pups that weren't out going.The second dog i sent to a real dog man in Kalamazoo,Mi Chet Rayner for his opinion he shot the bum from LITTLE IRELAND and sent me a real beagle.Did anyone know Chet Rayner he was a good dogman and had fought for the world heavyweight championship way back.Joe long before you had a beagle.
Thank You there Gus! I thought the hound's name was Scotty but was not sure. I think Bob might have even had him at stud for a while.
Never met Tom Dornin in person, but he was always nice to me in our telephone conversations. On the "SHY" thing... There was a fellow here in Texas that had a lot of the blood directly from the Dornins. He had some shy ones as I remember. Over in Louisiana, Cora Malone had some of the blood and was very succesful with it in the early Deep South trials which were tough competition wise
Never met Tom Dornin in person, but he was always nice to me in our telephone conversations. On the "SHY" thing... There was a fellow here in Texas that had a lot of the blood directly from the Dornins. He had some shy ones as I remember. Over in Louisiana, Cora Malone had some of the blood and was very succesful with it in the early Deep South trials which were tough competition wise
"Run the most rabbit, with the least amout of wasted action"...
The Bakers hounds name I beleive was Little Ireland's Tim Patrick; F.C. Little Irelands Scotty I beleive was owned by Rene Grenier. Tim Patrick was by Bedlam Boomer x Little Ireland's Brigid. I've herd it reported that Tim Patrick would not run in a trial but was highly thought of as a hunting hound. I have never seen him though even though I have owned one of his full sisters. Scotty was by L.I.'s Mick x L.I.'s Kerry. I did see him nd he was a nice hound. Vary talented. I had herd stories about his nose being exceptional over time. He sired the best hunting hound I have ever seen.
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gamekeeper
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:40 pm
- Location: N.H.
Boob and Bozo
West I have heard of you when you started a few years back and you bored us with your idiotic articles about your two pups Bozo and Boob now you are an expert give me a break!!!!If you had real Little Ireland you had spooks how many pups have you had ???
need some info on little ireland beagles
Joe West has his facts correct about the Baker's hound Tim Patrick. There was no shyness there. Didn't notice any shy pups from Tim Patrick either. I have hunted with Tim Patrick, and he ran a great cotton tail. FC Little Ireland Scotty was also a hound with a good nose.
Game keeper sounds to me like you've had some bad experiences. Tell us some of your stories about your hounds, and some of the faults with the blood lines.
Game keeper sounds to me like you've had some bad experiences. Tell us some of your stories about your hounds, and some of the faults with the blood lines.
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gamekeeper
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:40 pm
- Location: N.H.
Ask Howard
Ask Howard Cate what most of the Little Ireland stuff was, perhaps he had a couple decent ones before he died but you are bound to get something if you keep trying but his whole foundation stock was rubbish,Binky and all that stuff wasn't worth feeding I saw them .Ask Gus in Tenn. he had them and same experience he just not as vocal as I am but when I get screwed I let it be known!
L.I. hounds
mr.west i will call tomorrow and get the pedigree.as far as the shyness in the hounds,my pup isn't shy at all.you know gamekeeper it isn't polite to talk about the dead.especially someone who loved doing what they did.maybe L.I.hounds isn't your type of dog,but you don't have to go around and say negetive things about them.or is it your just jealous cause you don't have any Ireland blood in your kennels.when i started this article all i asked was for some info on L.I. hounds.i didn't ask for people to write rude comments on hounds that they had probably never seen ran before.i appreciate the help from mr.west.i can accept negative comments,but i think we can all do with out the rudeness.sure,there is probably some things that will come out of this pup that i won't be to thrilled about.there is no such thing as the perfect beagle.every dog has a flaw somewhere.i hope she turns out to be a pretty good hound.
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Lefgren-Lane
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 1:56 pm
- Location: MO
Boss hog, stick with Joe. I do not believe there is anyone around that knows more about Little Ireland than he does. I am glad you finally got hooked up with him. DG, your memory is incredible. L.I Scotty was the only one I could think of and that was because of the little bit of knowledge passed on to me by a mutual friend of Joe and mine, Rob Held (now gone). I would imagine Joe may have passed it on to Rob. Joe your dedication and knowledge of the line is much appreciated here.
Another man who had a good little hound was Bill Lloyd with his Sean hound. If you can contact him, Calvin McClendon of Longview Texas had lots of LI at his place from about '78-90... I don't have his #. Calvin Has the LI pedigrees all in his head from memory. He did lots of research on them early.
"Run the most rabbit, with the least amout of wasted action"...
Gamekeeper: Wow! There certainly is quite a bit of bitterness built up inside of you. Much more bitter then not being satisfied with a pup would make any normal person feel. No, there certainly must be something else bothering you unless you are sick in some way you aren't telling the whole story. Get it out in the open and off your chest and you'll be a much happier individual. I don't mind you unloading on me if it will help you out. Get it out and feel better.
Lloyd's Dutch Boy (call name Sean) by L.I.'s Irish x L.I.'s Bridget, was trialed some but I never herd of him earning his F.C.. He was around back in the 70"s. Actually I herd but never confirmed that something was wrong with him, some illness or another that prevented him from continueing to trial. I don't know that for sure and never herd what might have been wrong.
Little Ireland
Joe I can sympathize with Gamekeeper because I had similar experiences with Little Ireland. If you don't like the message, shoot the messanger. Reflecting on the past, I could be called stupid, naive, or just easily influenced by a sencere individual. Tom Dornin was sincere in his endeavers. You have to remember though, at that time, the Brace Trialers almost had a monopoly on AKC beagles south of Hare country. It was very difficult to find good breeding stock for new beaglers until Frank Reese and a few others started advertising.
Joe I don't know how many times you visited the Little Ireland Kennel or how many hounds that you purchased but I doubt that you spent more time there than I. I bought my first LI hound, Chip, in 1975 by Little Irelands Binkey X Little Irelands Bebe. (Bebe by FC Wilsons Timmy II) I bought Chip as a 12 week old pup. She matured into a fine field hound that could solo a rabbit for hours. I wrote Tom several letters describing her running ability. He published at least one of those letters in Better Beagling, probably known at that time as Large Pack. If you have Tom's "Training Hunting Beagles" it contains a letter that I wrote to Tom about Chip, back in the seventies. As good as Chip was in the field she was just the opposite as a mother. She had trouble conceiving, birthing, and she wouldn't lick her pups.
She was such a promising pup that I decided to buy a male for a potential Stud. (I was sold on Little Ireland) I put in an order for a started male. A few months later Tom wrote me stating "I have a handsome little male that meets your criteria." My wife and I drove to Scottsville and picked up the male. To my disappointment, when I arrived, I discovered that dog, Little Irelands Pee Dee, was stranger shy. In fact, Tom could not catch the dog, Velta had to catch him. Since she fed them each day Pee Dee was comfortable in her presence. I was filled with misgivings about Pee Dee but decided to take him anyway.(still "stupid") Tom had a litter by Little Irelands Beau Brady out of Little Irelands Jill (Jill by FC Wilsons Timmy II), so to cover my self in case Pee Dee did not meet my standards, I bought a male pup from that litter.
After arriving home I discoverd that both Pee Dee and the pup, who I named Clipper, suffered from car sickness. As long as I owned them, they would get diahrea and vomit every time they were hauled. I finally gave Pee Dee to a guy that I worked with. The little Male pup, Clipper, loved the track, in fact he loved any track whether it be squirrel, rabbit, dog, or deer. He was so dedicated to a track that it was impossible to call him off. The last time I took him hunting, my pack jumped a rabbit and ran it about three hundred yards where he holed. As I was standing, waiting for the hounds to return, another rabbit jumped up close by. I started calling the hounds. All but Clipper started back to me. As they got within about fifty feet from me, Clipper started back. As soon as he crossed the tracks of the pack he began to open on their trail as if he had jumped a rabbit. Did I mention he had a terrific chop mouth. As soon as the pack heard Clipper, they immediately turned around a sprinted back to investigate. Clipper was eighteen months of age at that time. He had been running since he was about three months of age. He had enough experience to know better.
Still being "stupid", I thought I was just having some bad luck. I still had hopes of getting another bitch with Chips qualities, so I wrote Tom asking if he were going to Breed Bebe, Chips mother, to Binkey again. He replied that she was bred to Binkey and since she was getting up in years he would sell her bred, for $300. In Tom fashion, he did the math explaining the good deal he was giving me. So I drove up again and picked up Bebe. She appeared big with pups. A humorous note: I stopped by my inlaws on the way back from Virginia. When my mother in law saw what I had bought she laughes and said, Roy that old dog is too old to have pups. She was correct. In about three weeks she went into labor and whelped one pup which was dead. I called Tom who recommended that I bring her back and breed her again as soon as possible. That I did. Again she had one pup which was dead. So I had Bebe put down.
When I told Tom, he was upset. He said that, "you regard beagles as chattel and I look at them as family".
I have no bad feelings toward Tom and Velta Dornin. He was just a hard headed Irishman, his words, that had a dream and did the best with his situation. I doubt if there are many who know how severly handicapped he was. Tom had Emphysema and could barely walk one hundred feet without laboring for breath. He depended almost entirely on feedback from buyers to critique his hounds. He had a ten acre enclosure and could barely keep rabbits or the fence mended because of his health.
I am confident that some of the flaws that I have described were bred out in later years. Tom used show stock from Mandy Cronin's Bedlam pack to further improve conformation and temprament. Bedlam Boomer and Show Champion, Chillybrook Chuckles, were used with success. I don't know how successful he was because I gave up in the early 80's.
Tim Patrick was heavy in Bedlam blood and Little Ireland's Mick was out of a Weir Creek Buzz bitch so it is obvious that Tom was trying other lines to improve his hounds.l
Joe I don't know how many times you visited the Little Ireland Kennel or how many hounds that you purchased but I doubt that you spent more time there than I. I bought my first LI hound, Chip, in 1975 by Little Irelands Binkey X Little Irelands Bebe. (Bebe by FC Wilsons Timmy II) I bought Chip as a 12 week old pup. She matured into a fine field hound that could solo a rabbit for hours. I wrote Tom several letters describing her running ability. He published at least one of those letters in Better Beagling, probably known at that time as Large Pack. If you have Tom's "Training Hunting Beagles" it contains a letter that I wrote to Tom about Chip, back in the seventies. As good as Chip was in the field she was just the opposite as a mother. She had trouble conceiving, birthing, and she wouldn't lick her pups.
She was such a promising pup that I decided to buy a male for a potential Stud. (I was sold on Little Ireland) I put in an order for a started male. A few months later Tom wrote me stating "I have a handsome little male that meets your criteria." My wife and I drove to Scottsville and picked up the male. To my disappointment, when I arrived, I discovered that dog, Little Irelands Pee Dee, was stranger shy. In fact, Tom could not catch the dog, Velta had to catch him. Since she fed them each day Pee Dee was comfortable in her presence. I was filled with misgivings about Pee Dee but decided to take him anyway.(still "stupid") Tom had a litter by Little Irelands Beau Brady out of Little Irelands Jill (Jill by FC Wilsons Timmy II), so to cover my self in case Pee Dee did not meet my standards, I bought a male pup from that litter.
After arriving home I discoverd that both Pee Dee and the pup, who I named Clipper, suffered from car sickness. As long as I owned them, they would get diahrea and vomit every time they were hauled. I finally gave Pee Dee to a guy that I worked with. The little Male pup, Clipper, loved the track, in fact he loved any track whether it be squirrel, rabbit, dog, or deer. He was so dedicated to a track that it was impossible to call him off. The last time I took him hunting, my pack jumped a rabbit and ran it about three hundred yards where he holed. As I was standing, waiting for the hounds to return, another rabbit jumped up close by. I started calling the hounds. All but Clipper started back to me. As they got within about fifty feet from me, Clipper started back. As soon as he crossed the tracks of the pack he began to open on their trail as if he had jumped a rabbit. Did I mention he had a terrific chop mouth. As soon as the pack heard Clipper, they immediately turned around a sprinted back to investigate. Clipper was eighteen months of age at that time. He had been running since he was about three months of age. He had enough experience to know better.
Still being "stupid", I thought I was just having some bad luck. I still had hopes of getting another bitch with Chips qualities, so I wrote Tom asking if he were going to Breed Bebe, Chips mother, to Binkey again. He replied that she was bred to Binkey and since she was getting up in years he would sell her bred, for $300. In Tom fashion, he did the math explaining the good deal he was giving me. So I drove up again and picked up Bebe. She appeared big with pups. A humorous note: I stopped by my inlaws on the way back from Virginia. When my mother in law saw what I had bought she laughes and said, Roy that old dog is too old to have pups. She was correct. In about three weeks she went into labor and whelped one pup which was dead. I called Tom who recommended that I bring her back and breed her again as soon as possible. That I did. Again she had one pup which was dead. So I had Bebe put down.
When I told Tom, he was upset. He said that, "you regard beagles as chattel and I look at them as family".
I have no bad feelings toward Tom and Velta Dornin. He was just a hard headed Irishman, his words, that had a dream and did the best with his situation. I doubt if there are many who know how severly handicapped he was. Tom had Emphysema and could barely walk one hundred feet without laboring for breath. He depended almost entirely on feedback from buyers to critique his hounds. He had a ten acre enclosure and could barely keep rabbits or the fence mended because of his health.
I am confident that some of the flaws that I have described were bred out in later years. Tom used show stock from Mandy Cronin's Bedlam pack to further improve conformation and temprament. Bedlam Boomer and Show Champion, Chillybrook Chuckles, were used with success. I don't know how successful he was because I gave up in the early 80's.
Tim Patrick was heavy in Bedlam blood and Little Ireland's Mick was out of a Weir Creek Buzz bitch so it is obvious that Tom was trying other lines to improve his hounds.l
L.I.hounds
i talked to the fella i got the pup from about her pedigree.he didn't have much time,but he said he would mail her pedigree to me.the ones he could list off the top of his head was loyds dutch boy,there is some bloomer in her,and yellow creeks joshua.i will get you the rest when i get them.