Half Brother/Sister Cross??

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/inbreeding.htm


there is pros and cons- I wouldn't do it because I can name ten dogs from different lines I could breed from to get what I want out of a dog and I think overall health suffers with inbreeding... Although no doubt you can raise some rabbit running machines... I am willing to bet branko has some undesirable traits as a result of line breeding whether they admit it or not...

Just facts of genetics... More susceptible to disease and small litters are the first things to usually happen in inbreeding..

[mybeagles]

bwe,

your going to lock in whatever traits the line has.

does it improve the trait, or lock it in where its at?

with outcrossing it's a gamble you don't know what you are going to get. and even if you do get a world beater the chances of that dog reproducing himself are terrible

Sounds like inbreeding is very predicatable, have you ever heard of someone inbreeding a world beater and just keep producing more and more world beaters?
In other words, when you inbreed world beaters are the chances of it reproducing himself pretty good? Examples?

with outcrossing it's a gamble you don't know what you are going to get

Ive outcrossed a few litters and always seem to get dogs pretty similar to the sire and dam.......sometimes you get a pup even better than the parents, sometimes not as good, but almost always similar traits. For example, Ive never outcrossed two dogs with good conformation and hard hunt and got pups with no hunt and poor conformation. I guess I can't follow that line of thinking that outcrossing is so unpredictable. The way I understood it, if you inbreed the chances of bringing out a bad recessive trait are much higher and its not predictable what bad trait might surface.

Mybeagles

[BCBeagles]

On the opposite side of that coin, what if the linebreeding intensifies your traits and the hounds are better than there parents, either one?? I am confident that a linebred hound will reproduce it's likeness more often than an outcrossed hound. This is based off my small experience and a lot of talking with guys that have done this for longer than I have been alive.

The female i am questioning to breed in fact if distanly linebred and has already produced two well above average pups. She was bred to an average male and these two pups, (only two lived), will both smoke a rabbit at 10 months and seem to be cleaner running than my female, there dam??

This cross may happen just out of my curiosity and I will keep a pup or two and give the rest away to local hunters and then I can see the results first hand!!!!

[mybeagles]

what if the linebreeding intensifies your traits and the hounds are better than there parents, either one??

Thats a pretty big "WHAT IF"......Producing hounds superior to the sire and dam with more intensified quality traits is difficult, but I always associated a higher occurance among outcrossing. I always understood inbreeding to produce more hounds equal to the parents and outcrossing to produce some hounds better, some equal, and some worse, like your next statement suggests.

I am confident that a linebred hound will reproduce it's likeness more often than an outcrossed hound.

Do you think inbreeding produces more hounds just like itself....AND.....produces more hounds(than outcrossing) of better quality than the parents? If that were the case I think inbreeding would be the only way to breed. It would be a win, win situation and take away my percieved reasons for outcrossing.

Mybeagles

[BCBeagles]

Your perceived notions are not incorrect, it is what your view is, and that is fine by me. In the inbred crosses I have seen I have seen good and bad. I just feel like I will have more of the traits produced in this cross, in question, circulating thru the pups. I am not afraid to cull and do this hard. I have given away or other many hounds guys would hunt. I am not going to set on what I have as the best I will ever have, at least, I don't intend to.

I think why you see you outcrosses produce the "superior" hound you refer to because the genetics line up less frequently in an outcross. There is less of the same circlulating "same" traits and if they do line up you have something special. In inbreeding you intensify the good and the BAD and you would have to be selective as you may get a whole litter of "good" dogs, but is the special one going to surface?

I don't know, but these are just my thoughts on it??

This has turned out to be a great topic!!

[haredawg]

here's some facts for all, not every cross turns out be it inbred,outcross or linebred that's just fact,but for the guys that don't like ,or believe in in-line breeding that's ok,but for some of us there's always that little what if floating around that keeps us striving for more,I myself have had a few what if dogs that never got bred the way I wanted either they died somehow or something happens and always leave you wondering,my best cold nose male right now has been bred the last 2yrs to females here and nothing, I'm on my last try for him with some special vitamins and gonna try 1 more time and then that's it and I"ll have another what if to file away.people who are inbreeding have nothing to prove to anyone we do it because we believe it works for us.those who say it doesn't work don't understand it as they think every time one inbreds it should or does work out when in fact it doesn't always turn out.Anyhow BC the only way your gonna know is if you try it, or you can fall into the ( what if) and never know, good luck with what ever you decide.

[Alabama John]

Anybody see Deliverence?

Why is it against the law to marry too close?

Different opinions make Beagling interesting. Try what you like and either way, live with the results and call it experience. After you have done it several ways, you can then talk from experience and not I think this or that.

[BCBeagles]

Good points from all! We'll see how timing works out on this.

[R.Ooten (RUFF)]

I don't breed my dogs so everyone on the board will want one... I breed for myself alone. Im not saying I have it right or wrong. I do like outcrossing to very linebred dogs and then going back to linebreeding. but I have found that most people outcross not to inprove the breed but to sell a pup. it works great.
breed to the big time dog and take a chance on getting a great pup but in this case if you don't keep the whole litter your chance of keeping the right one
is slim. but you diden't get stuck with a bunch of pups that you can't give away...LOL and heck if you keep a female even if she's no good and needs to be shot.
you can still take her to the next big thing and might get a world beater. but if not just keep a female and try again....

Everyone needs to breed for what they feed. There is no right or wrong way to do this. just do what you think is right and don't knock someone else's method untill you spend your $$$$$ on one of there junky pups, then you have a reason to knock it.

[jumpNrun]

it can work really well or u can get some retarted dogs to it can all go both ways i dont go that close i just find blood thats kinda like it and the dog that will fill in the blanks for the hound that your breeding good luck!

[R.Ooten (RUFF)]

inbred dogs just dont throw retarted pups unless someone bred a retarted dog. that reflects on the breeder you have to be very selective in thigt breeding
just like someone telling you they tried it and ended up getting a pup with 3 legs. well if there was a pup with 3 legs in a litter of inbred dogs its because
someone back down the road bred a 3 legged dog. or otherwise it could never show up. When you line breed tight or inbreed you will bring out the good and the bad so if you can't be very selective then don't fool yourself and think it will work.

[BCBeagles]

The dogs in question are both nice dogs. The female is a little more radical, if you will, in her approach to running. The male is a straight forward hard charger with more control. They both can go and hunt and jump a rabbit and run it as long as it will stay in front of them under a lot of conditions. I have stirred my mind into a frenzy on this!! I like both the dogs in there own ways very much! If they cross produces that radical edge from Lilly and the control of Jake they could be some really nice hounds for what ever you would want them for. The guy told me today the pup he owns off of Lilly is good enough he is considering breeding her on her first cycle? Lilly will reproduce. Again, we shall see!!

[R.Ooten (RUFF)]

Jim, breed them you'll be fine. Lilly is a outstanding hound and you know it. I haven't seen Jake run but I know what you call a rabbit dog. and he will work just fine.

[Farwest]

Ive looked at a great number of Branko pedigree's, don't recall seeing many inbreedings, and most of the line breeding is pretty loose.

I havent followed many of Branko's pedigree's lately, can anyone confirm or deny that he is consistently inbreeding??

Mybeagles

Why don't you look at Branko's web page and read the peds of his hounds.I am sure you already have as you seem to be on most beagle sites. You would be hard pressed to find a hound that wasn't bred by Branko in their 4 generation peds. Everyone knows they sell a lot of hounds each year. Go to the for sale boards and count how many of his hounds are for resale. You never see very many
You have stated that you have gone through hundreds of outcrossed pups over the years????? You don't make much sense

[Panther Creek]

I'm no expert- but just following the posts, the difference between linebreeding & inbreeding has been muddled - some of you all act as if they're the same.