Are Beagles getting better over time, or worse or same?

[T LEE]

Guys , I would have to disagree that the old time beagler's culled hard. Most just didn't have the heart to and grew too attached to their hounds. I have an old country store a few miles from my home. Any given morning retired older guys meet to talk dogs an enjoy the company of fellow beaglers. Most of these men are in their 70's. They seldom sale any dogs and most of their hounds grow old and die in the kennel. They don't keep these dogs because they are All A-1 rabbit dogs with tons of talent. They keep them because they grew too attached to let any go. Each one of these men will say that they own the best pack of dogs they have ever owned. I've sit on the tail gate with several of those guys and talked dogs and listen to their dogs run a rabbit. From what I've seen , if they have 10 beagles on the ground 3 of them are doing most of the work. The other 7 are average dogs that seem to be just in the pack running. To be honest...if the 7 were Not there it wouldn't made much difference anyway. I ask one of the guys why he doesn't just keep the one's that are doing Most of the work. His answer was " I just like to hear the music , son".

What's the old saying???
The older we get the Better our dogs from the past become.

Something like that anyway,

[Herb Cronizer III]

Maybe then its just geographical but up here I know dogs were culled and culled hard. It would usually start with a few pep talks saying you better get in there or better stop doing that and then after a few more times out the collar comes with out the dog the old time houndsmen would not feed a dog that didnt do what was expected it was off to the happy huntin ground. I know some very old beagle guys and they didnt put up with swinging, skirting, over running,babbling,running off game, and I'm sure theres more but they didnt put up with much and the dog had no business with them or any one else and as previously stated people that went through the depresion wouldnt even waist a bullet if the dog was no good. I dont condone that but thats the way it was.

[Bunnyblaster]

I had a dog named Fred ( Names may be changed to avoid futher embarrassment ). Fred was a solid rabbit dog that a man could take out and kill rabbits over. I entered Fred in his first trail and won the first two rounds. I was thinking that there is Nothing to this and Fred was just a Beast. In the Final round .....Fred was not only out checked 9 to 1 but out classed so bad that I didn't even need the score card read to me. Fred had his a$$ handed to him. About any dog can run a rabbit but a dog that can truly dominate and take control of a pack is a special find.

That would be the "More" that I'm refering to.

So how many more rabbits do you suppose that guy could shoot over his dog than you could over Fred? Did Fred make you happy and did he consistently bring the rabbits back around for you? You were obviously happy with him until you found out someone else had a dog that was better. And maybe you kept old Fred for years to come until he died at your place. I obviously don't know that for sure. But if Fred was getting the job done for you then why all of the sudden does he not measure up just because you saw a superstar? I'm not trying to split hairs with you or anything but there are of course dogs that may do it better or worse than the next dog but in the end if they get the job done then why do we care? The dog you are referring to is what most guys tell me are a once in a lifetime kinda dog. Maybe not for guys that own lots and lots of beagles but for the rest of us, or at least for guys like me, that is the case. I think missouri is right to an extent that some people are putting too much emphasis on just a few points and not always looking at the dog as a whole......in other words they exploit the rules in order to win even if it means ending up with dogs that are not well rounded.

Just as an example let's say that dog that beat Fred stood around and let the other dogs jump the rabbit. But man once the rabbit is up he is the only dog you'd ever need. Is that a well rounded dog? Obviously I doubt that was what happened in your case from what you explained but I also believe it does happen. I'm not trying to say I think things like trials are an evil thing I just think that sometimes certain aspects of our beagles get overlooked or let go because people put too much focus on just one or two aspects of the running........I hope that all makes sense.

Tlee, I'm not trying to pick at you so please don't take it that way. I just sometimes think that "more" that we all seem to thirst for is what sometimes makes us overlook what we already have. Of course we all want to have the best dog and of course we all seem to want a better dog than the one we already have. But when will enough be enough? Will it ever be enough? Does the "more" make us that much happier or do you end up like I did? Finding yourself so focused on the "more" that you forget to enjoy the dogs you have that already do a fine job..............they just don't happen to be as flashy as the next dog? And maybe I'm ok with having average dogs......I don't know. All I do know is chasing a dream dog made me lose focus of why I loved doing it to begin with.

[chapkosbeagles]

i still say we are promoting HOT NOSE TIGHT MOUTHED DOG. THESE HOUNDS ARE SO HOT NOSED AND TIGHT MOUTH THAT THEY COULD NOT SMELL A RABBIT 2 FEET OFF THE LINE.

GUY ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT HOUNDS BARKING OUT OF PLACE THAT THEY WEEN THEM OUT. IMO A BIG NOSE WILL GIVE A LITTLE EXTRA MOUTH HERE AND THERE. IN AKC UKC ARHA THIS WILL GET YOU PICKED UP OR MINUSED PERIOD. THIS IS HOW WE ARE PROMOTING THEM. I HAVE SEEN SEEVERL DOGS JUST DOMINATE THAN GET MINUSED OUT OR PICKED UP. AFTER SCORING MORE POINTS IN A HALF THAN THE WINNING DOG DID IN 2 HOURS. BUT ONCE AGAIN GOT PICKED UP OR MINUSED OUT.

I HAVE BOUGHT MORE HOT NOSE DOGS IN THE LAST 5 YEARS OUT OF TOP STOCK THAT I CAN SIT BACK AND SEE IT.


HOT NOSE AND TIGHT MOUTH RUN HAND AND HAND

LOSE LIP AND COLD NOSE ALSO RUN HAND AND HAND

SO KEEP PROMOTING THEM HOT NOSED DOG AND SEE WHERE WE WILL BE IN A FEW YEARS.


SO WITH ALL THIS SAID I REALLY DONT THINK OUR BEAGLES ARE GETTING BETTER I THINK THAT THE BEAGLE BREED OVER ALL IS GETTING WATERED DOWN

BUT I AM ONLY 27 AND HAVE OLNY HAD BEAGLES SINCE I WAS 14. MY OLD DOGS MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN AS FAST BUT EVERY HOUND COULD SMELL THE RABBIT AS GOOD AS MY BEST BIGGEST NOSE HOUND NOWDAYS

[Dale L.]

My grandfather used to tell me stories of rabbit hunting and the numbers were much higher then. He said you could jump rabbits like crazy back then. He actually told me one time that they didn't really care if the dog hunted or not because they could jump rabbits all day by kicking brush piles. They just wanted one to run the rabbit if they missed on the jump. Me and my brother also hunted with an older gentleman who said that our dogs stayed in the brush much better than the beagles he hunted with as a kid. So I do believe the breed is probably a more complete breed now. A beagles main purpose from the beginning was to simply trail. I believe the hunt and search has been bred into them over the years.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Chop--- from what I have seen the dogs with the mouth usually wins in my casts and it annoys the dog snot out of me for it... This is ukc. Some dog starts barking like crazy, gets struck in and then the other dogs run over and finally get the rabbit up and the dog who barked first like a wild banshee gets the 100 strike points.

It only hurts them if no other dog opens...and while on a check mouth dogs who lost the trail keep barking and waste hunting time because the check goes off time if a dog opens up... I know it shouldn't but most judges take it off time even for a whimper. Kinda irks me because just cause a dog is mouthy doesn't mean the rabbit is found.... Plus they usually give that dog the recovery points because it was the dumb mouth dog who jabbered even though the solid hound picked it up...

and mouth doesn't count for anything on the line. NOT KNOCKING THEM OR YOUR COMMENT-- I just see things differently....I really really like UKC but wish rules were standard across judges

[T LEE]

Bunnyblaster , That's alot of questions but I'll try to explain a few for you.

No , Fred didn't die of old age in my kennel. I sold Fred and ended up buying the dog that won that trial. Why ? , to better my kennel . The dog went on to win two more trials.

Alot of people Really don't know what's out there when it comes to dogs. I Didn't Either. They see One bad dog from a bloodline and feel every dog from that line is bad. Most guys settle for mediocre dogs because they have never seen much of anything else run. I strive to improve the quality of dogs in my kennel. I understand the next best thing is Not in my own back yard. You have heard as well as I the guys from this board that claim to have the best dogs in the country. Most , have never traveled outside a 12 mile area to even watch another dog run. Most don't have a clue.

Bunnyblaster , You may be content with your dogs ability. Nothing wrong with that. I know that better dogs are out there than mine. I strive to improve . You wouldn't down a guy for that ..would you???

[chapkosbeagles]

mo beagler how many hunts you been to
in ukc i have seen more dogs get minused ext. for opening on tracks others could not smell and running them to a hole or brush pile. most get more minus than plus points. i think ukc is the hardest format to put big scores on the card (even thow i never had a problum ) go score 2000 points or 1500 ext than you will know what kind of hound you are running.

all i no is my grandpaw had hounds that would run the line strong, average hunt,7 in speed would give a little extra mouth but would shut up in the checks. HIS DOGS WERE NOT MY STYLE OF HOUND,BUT WHEN THEY JUMPED A RABBIT THEY ACCOUNTED FOR IT TILL IT HOLED OR IT GOT SHOT. ALL HAD NOSES THAT WOULD NOT LOSE A RABBIT WHEN JUMPED

BUT LIKE I SAID I WAS NOT OUT LOOKING AT ANY OTHER HOUNDS THEM DAYS BUT I WISH I NEW WHAT HE WAS RUNNING SO I COULD BREED THE SPEED INTO IT.


I JUST SEE A LOT OF HOUNDS THESE DAYS THAT ARE FOR SALE THAT I WOULD CULL AS THEY CANT EVEN BRING A RABBIT AROUND,BUT ARE FIELD TRIAL CHAMPIONS

[Bunnyblaster]

Tlee, no I wouldn't and like I said they're just some questions. I view it basically the same as you and you are also probably like me I think. I am always trying to improve what I have but I also try not to fall back into trying so hard that I forget to have fun with them in the first place.

Also, I honestly think that if I had a dog that was consistent and good I'm not sure I would get too upset if so and so had a dog that was a step or 2 above what I already owned. I look at it like this, if I was happy with what I had to begin with then it shouldn't matter what someone else has. And again, nothing wrong with bettering my own kennel and I don't run junk dogs either(and I know that's not what you meant). I just sometimes think guys get too caught up in trying to have the next best thing and never seem happy with what they already have. JMO

Too bad we didn't live a little closer together cause I think I'd like to do some running with you and shoot the breeze sometime.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

I only have a dog in the open class since my dog is only ten months old and keeps barely getting beat every friggen trial I think 7 trials now maybe... has a 2nd and 4th place... but I only run my dogs once or twice a week and one of them is in a trial because coaching duties have resumed and I can't get out...

I bet in the Champions and grand class you have more of what your talking about but in the opens I have ran in, all the dogs get suckered in when a dog opens up but I don't have any dogs that are that high of stature yet ... Mine won't in a three dog cast if just one or two dogs open but n a four dog race its a done deal, she barks and i'm in it...the crappy part is she keeps her mouth shut till rabbit is up so ill end up fourth place even if she jumped the rabbit. One guy laughed at me for my dog jumping it but getting last place twice in one hunt. I wanted to punch him in the testicles he is a good guy.

sure we end up eating 250 points by the end of the hunt but there is enough line control and jumps to keep us in the positive. I've only minused out once and all four dogs did the day after a 8inch ice/snow storm..... we turned in 1200pts one day with only 50 minus... Best day of running in my entire life..

[chapkosbeagles]

although 1200 is a good score they were running good that day