To Stereotype a Bloodline

[Bunnyblaster]

I often read guys posting about certain things like speed, style, etc for a certain bloodline. Is it really a fair assessment to say that a bloodline in general has any certain traits? Do you guys think most of them come out that way and just a small percentage will be off from those traits? Or does it tend to only matter more if/when the bloodline gets watered down? I always think of Branko as an example. People will sometimes use a generalization about Branko but there are so many Branko dogs out there I find it hard to believe they all fit into the same general category.

I was just curious what some of you more experienced beaglers thought about it.

[Salzer mtn]

When i mention a bloodline like Del Ray Stubby i also include some names in the pedigree so people can understand what i am talking about. For example if i say FC Canoe Creek Burt. Burt is out of Stubby but Burt was a conservative med speed real close on the checks and line control. There are also Stubby bred dogs of today that are faster like the Northside dogs (Northsides Gray Rebel). But these dogs are linebred Stubby and Black Creek and Weircreek which gives them more of a punch.

[klrconcrete]

Bunnyblaster, This an excellent question, I think that all bloodlines that are well established and have many generations out there to be used in the evaluation will carry very similar traits- especially when line bred down through the years. This should be more pronounced I think if you are talking about one breeder or a very small group of breeders using the same blood bred and handled the same way. This is really just a common sense answer to me, when the variation starts to show is when more people start using this blood as a base and then add their own twist to it. There will be common traits that show through but what I am calling the twist is where the variation will show up. The common traits will probably always come through to a point but at this point are probably on the verge of becoming dull and less consistent. Just as effective or ineffective as breeding (depending how one wants to look at it) is the handler and or enviroment the hound is raised and trained in. One handler may take pups from completely different bloodlines that harbor different traits and end up with running dogs of similar styles while another could take littermates and end up with a completely mixed bag-good, bad, or otherwise. JMO

[Shady Grove Beagles]

People stereotype a bloodline when MANY times and I might even go so far as to say MOST times they are not even talking about a "line" so much as just a recognizable hound or man's name.
I think I'm a good example of this.Fifteen years ago when I moved to Tennessee and brought my beagles with me most of the beaglers I met in the woods or at the A.R.H.A. Little Pack trials had never heard of Branko Krpan and his hounds.Before long everybody where ever I went would say "oh,you've got Branko hounds" The truth is that I have never bought a dog from Branko nor have I ever bred to one of his studs.Yes, my hounds have a lot of Branko's hounds in their background but I would not call them Branko dogs.Two in my kennel I raised myself out of crosses I decided on,one came from a breeder in Indiana and another from a guy in Kentucky.To say that my dogs are representative of Branko's line I could not say,you'd probably have to ask Branko himself what he thought after observing them.I'm sure Branko has his own perceptions about what he wants in a hound and for his conditions,game he runs,trialing,etc.and no doubt they may differ from mine.
I have two females in my kennel sired by I.F.C. Greenwell's Reggie that I like very much.But, these dogs to me anyways do not represent a line of "Reggie" dogs! Reggie is a STUD,not a line!He has been heavily bred to females from most any kind of beagle breeding there is.Now, if somwhere down the road someone takes some outstanding Reggie sired [or grandsired ] dogs and starts to judiciously line breed them over several generations with consistant results then maybe you can talk about a "line" and maybe then it has stereotypical traits that most houndsmen would notice.
The problem with creating and maintaining a "line" of beagles is that you basically have to be someone with the dedication and commitment of time,finances,kennel set-up and life style etc.of Branko and Freida to pull it off.People many times complain about Branko produces so many dogs,pups,etc. like it's a great sin that he has the resources in time ,money and set-up to be able to keep 100+ beagles.That's the way a "line" gets built.It takes time and a lot of crosses and that takes a lot of dogs.You do not create a "line" of hunting dogs with a 5-10 dog backyard kennel.You might produce a World Champion but not a true breeding reproducing "line".
If you want to know how a "line " gets started check out Dave Dean's Northern Blue Kennels in Dowling,Michigan.Dave breeds Bluetick coonhounds and now in his mid-70's has been since the early 60's.Dave started with a hound named Northern Blue Trapper who produced Dave's Northern Blue Hammer 1.I've been out of coonhounds for quite awhile now but last I knew he was advertising Northern Blue Hammer 24 at public stud.Every Hammer dog has been sired by one of the previous Hammer dogs!!!! Dave told me once " I can tell you what those pups will look like,sound like,hunt like,what kind of nose,etc. before they're born because I live and breath these dogs". In my opinion that's how "lines" get known and there aren't many of us capable of that kind of effort to create a "line".
JMHO

[BCBeagles]

We had three "Hammer" dogs directly from the cabin in Michigan, I know this is off subject, but they were all worthless. That can and will happen in any and all lines of hounds. When you inbreed and line breed like Dave Dean it is an all or nothing deal. I have seen some powerful "Hammer" bred hounds and way more not so powerful. Same in beagles you are going to get culls in ANY "line".

I do not see anything wrong with saying hounds are "Reggie" bred or "Shooter" bred. All in what you want to call them. JMO.

[chapkosbeagles]

if i am correct that all bloodlines to our beagles were shipped over from england some time in the early 16 or 18 hundreds so really they are all related as they were classified as long haired beagles or short hair beagles they were breed in to what we have now days

[Salzer mtn]

I think most people that are breeders will stay within the style of dog they prefer when breeding. Is it not fair to say that most hare hounds will be fast compaired to spo med speed dogs. Also different hare hound bloodlines for example have certain traits in common more so than others. If i call a person about a dog forsale and he starts reading me dogs in the pedigree and the first dog he mentions is Branko i could probably stop him right there before he read another name and say this dog is not a med speed close on the check type dog. Why would i think this is because most breeders if they know what their doing are going to stay within the style they like in their breeding program and breed dogs that compliment each other.

[Bunnyblaster]

And as an add on question that's kind of along the same lines I'd like to hear some opinions on this one too.

When we talk about breeding dogs that compliment each other what exactly do we mean? We breed 2 dogs that we like but say one lacks a little nose so we breed it to a dog that has a very good nose. And another question.........Would I have better luck getting pups with good noses if I bred 2 dogs with just average nose or if I bred a dog with a slightly below average nose to a dog with plenty of nose power? Are the average nosed dogs gonna produce average nosed pups and the other 2 are gonna be a crap shoot?? Some really good, some really bad and everything in between??

[Pine Lakes]

Roll the dice. I've seen field champions who couldn't produce very well and littermates to that same champion that produced outstanding offspring and everything else in between. I have seen fast hare hounds and slow ones. I've seen some cottontail bred hounds hit hard. I've seen some hounds with show breeding run the front of any pack. The point is I don't think anybody knows anymore than you and my opinion is to do what your instincts tell you and be prepared to cull. Branko and other large breeders aren't geniuses, they raise a ton of pups and go through them like a hot knife through butter. Most of us can't do that so many times we purchase dogs from a breeder like Branko who puts the time and effort into a large kennel. Or some like me take the risk of raising 1 or 2 litters and hope that we don't have to start over in 2 years. Good luck with whatever you do.

[chapkosbeagles]

if someone can predict how blood will mix let me know. AS I WANT TO SUPER FAST SUPER CLEAN ONLY USES THER MOUTH RIGHT WITH A BIG NOSE AND LOT OF HUNT

[Herb Cronizer III]

Isn't the piont of line breeding or inbreeding the best to the best in that line to "stereotype" the line and have fewer veriables pop up and have a certain concistency because the dogs are both from the parent, parents, or grandparents and both carry exceptional qualities that suit your line and are worthy of reproducing?

[Gunslinger Beagles]

i dont sterotype and never have. i judge a dog for what it can do. dont matter if it is akc,ukc,or xyz or grade.if it comes from the big names or no names. we have always bred good dogs to good dogs. we like to line breed if possible but when the rubber meet the road you got to breed good dogs to good dogs. JMO good subject

[allniter]

I breed dogs the first litter was one of the best litters to hit ground everyone of the pups where way above avg. ---breed the same pair a year later and the pups were all duds --with the same type of training --roll the dice again