Enough already or more time?

[mjs bunnybuster]

Last Febuary I went south to get a patch male. He was three months old when I got him and by 4mo he was opening up on scent. By 6mo he could circle his own rabbit not to mention sit, lay down, come, and kennal. As summer progressed I got more and more excited by his progress. Then December hit and snow and cold came and since then all I get out of him on a track is a whimper and a yip here and there where as he normaly has a big mouth. Its almost the end of january and nothings changed for as much as I have fed him tracks trying to get him to be more confident. I have two older slower bitches that can get it done in these conditions that I have ran him with also; he will hark in take the track over then yip and wine or just scilent chase. Its keeping me up nights on what to do so heres my poll.

[Phillip B]

I would get his ears checked, sometimes earmites cause there head to hurt when barking then go from there.

[mjs bunnybuster]

No problem barking when he wants to. Just this morning you should have seen the fit he was in when I took other dogs out without him lol

[mjs bunnybuster]

Come on people help me out by voting. Reasons and or suggestions are also wanted.

[rabbitsmoker]

My opinion he has another problem if he was barking and doing good then all of a sudden may a change for the worse However pups start and ether get better are fall off for the bad and this may be the case But quit barking thats strange Not knocking patch hounds but i owned them for about 2 years ever one that owned looked good until they was around 1-2 years old then it was like they lost thier mind I had them out of rawhide and pennroyal casie and penny had bad luck give them away and started over It was just my luck pups will make you crazy

[mybeagles]

Due to the obsession by most not wanting a dog to ever bark out of place, the nose has been completely bred out of most bloodlines. You cant take for granted that just any line of dogs will be able to run effectively in the snow or in tough conditions. If you want colder nosed hounds that can run in Wisconsin temps with consistency, you have your work cut out for you. Look for some lines that are noted for have big noses and bred for it. When you find those lines, your problem will more than likely be dogs that give extra mouth.

Its a challenge to go through cold nosed dogs to find ones that can run in most conditions and give proper amount of tongue (whatever that means). I dont believe there is a dog alive that can run in every condition. The ones that are the best at it, will likely not be your best dog when conditions are real good.

If it were me, I would rid myself of this pup and try another, but Im not very patient when it comes to lack of nose......

Mybeagles

[Hand_beagler]

Now I'm no expert by any means but my opinion on this is that he is still less than 2 years old so there is still quite some learning to be had. But you said that all spring, summer, and fall he was doing great and then winter came and he started falling off. So it seems that since the conditions changed he hasn't adapted to them or learned how to scent in them yet. IMO, I would keep him and work with him until the beginning of next season. If he does good for you through the warm months this year and again in the winter he doesn't run good, I would sell him to someone in the south who doesn't get the cold conditions like you do in WI. Because unless your moving down South soon, you can't have a dog that doesn't run well in your environment. But others don't have as much patience as I do and would probably get rid of him sooner. Just depends on how much you like him and is he worth keeping, feeding, and putting the time in to train him? You need to ask yourself how happy would you be if he turns around and runs for you in the winter like he does in the summer. Hope my thoughts helped. -Tyler

[mjs bunnybuster]

So far this thread is an exact replay of whats going on in my head. Thanks guys for the advice. Keep it coming.

[rabbitrunner33]

young dog give it time. not all dogs can run on snow and in the cold let alone a pup give it time.

[Bellmorekennels]

i would keep for another season,you might want to find a running pen, that would let him run everday for a month or two, if that does not help, then would consider selling ,but if he is doing everything else well, he might just need time. I have had a few patch hounds, and i purchased them as 1 year olds, they too had tough time on snow at first, and became snow hounds by their 3rd year. I recently purchased a 4 yr old female ,not patch, from tenesee, and at first she was really not barking too much with the snow, but last time out she did ok. Every dog is different, but to run in a certain condition, a dog has to be exposed to it , and even then some never get it. I find that most dogs I have purchased from the south, have much more hunt and search then the north hounds, but will take time to adapt. I personally would not give up on the pup just yet...

[DJC]

I give dogs 2yrs on snow before I really decide. That being said if you don't continue to run him on snow he probably won't get any better. Just like older dogs take a while to adjust when coming off snow in the spring young dogs may take a while to figure out snow some longer then others. If the dog is smart he will figure out how to become a productive member of the pack. I gues the question I would be asking is: is the dog not productive or is he disruptive? As I said smart dogs learn how to become productive.

[davidc5936]

I bought my first Patch hounds in 1971- a male and female out of Anderson's Patch. (I still have the AKC papers) Today I have 4 that I run. My own opinion is that (a) Patch hounds mature late and you can't really see their potential until they are at least 2 to 3 years old; (b) Much of the original nose and mouth has been bred out of today's Patch hounds. Willet Randall bred the Patch hounds to run hare and to do it on snow. Many of the Patch hounds I see today are tight mouthed, lack nose and run so fast they can not run a cottontail by themselves with any consistancy. They are also the best jump dogs I have ever seen, tougher than any other line of dogs I know of and nicer to look at than most beagles today.
My suggestion on your pup is that you give him some more time and see what happens. I think the odds on him becoming a real good snow hound are small but worth spending some more time on him.

[Househounds]

I have a "late bloomer" patch hound. I was ready to give up on him but I new part was my fault not getting him out enough. I am no expert either, as this was my first beagle, but in my opinion he has turned into what I think is an exceptional dog. Great hunt, stamina, determination, and tight mouthed. He jumps them, starts them and runs them. The first two and a half years were trying (loosing the rarbbit, over running, not opening when I put him on a rabbit) but worth it. He is six now and I wouldn't trade him for anything. The more he runs the better he gets. I would give him more time before you throw in the towel. I think the tight mouthed fast running nature of thes dogs can sometimes make it seem like they are not getting it, but eventually they seem to figure it out. He is also very rabbit smart. Will go back to the same spot to find rabbits where he has found them before and seems to recognize good rabbit cover in new areas. My advice is hang in there it will probalby get better. If not maybe I could help you by taking him off your hands.

[intrepid]

I would probably give him more solo time, and let him figure it out at his own pace. I live in wisconsin, and if your conditions have been anything like mine they really haven't been very conducive to cottontail hunting. He's only a year old, i know alot of guys that cut hounds loose,and they turned out to be somebody else's best hound.

[WRKennels]

I am going through almost the same situation myself,with a young male, wondering if I should give him more time or cut my losses and find him a new home.But have decided that I would rather invest more time and feed than to find out later that I had gotten rid of a really good dog .So I would give him more time,after all he's still young and if it doesn't work out you can sell him then.JMO.