The Best producing male

[HatterasBob]

Coyote, You have a good point, but when quoting statistics, remember, "There are liars, darn liars and statistisians, in that order of magnatude!" There is no doubt Ranger Dan has been bred alot, therefore I thinks Argenteuil Striker must be considered, since he tied with Dan in 2003 and had alot fewer breedings. I put my money where my mouth is by breeding Woodeyes Super Girl to Striker last month. I've got my fingers crossed lol

[blitzen]

Coyote Hunter, I wouldn't even have a guess and if I did it wouldn't matter my point is that you can not compare the two until they have had a similar number of breedings. Dave

[coyote hunter]

Blitzen to me you are not making any since the hounds I am using like I said I have nothing for or againist but using common since I will ask Ranger Dan was bred say 200 time and I am pretty sure that this is very close,I will ask why at every trial with these many breedings why is the off spring from this so called producer not showing up ???? he was ONLY a so called producer I no there are a few off spring placing thats not what I am saying I just think if he was a producing stud for the amount of breeding his pups should be all over <<<<<RIGHT.Now If a hound was only bred 5 times like IFC Steve's little ranger for the name and with only a few pups on the ground and a high number of these hounds from all different bitches are placing in trials why would one have to wait to see if they would compare after IFC Steve's little was bred 200 times small breedings and high placing shoud say it all just like Rob was saying about Ninja it not the amount of times a male is bred it what comes out of it when he is bred.THATS COMMON SINCE or is it ????DUH.And to you Hatter ,you are saying the same as myself who would you say is the better producer ? less breedings and tided for top producer ????? not hard to figure .take care Dan

[Bopeye]

I would still say IFC Taylor's Sock it to me tops every other dog, so why argue about opinions anyway.

Sometimes computers are very difficult to convey to one another the point we are trying to make. I would suggest a PM, e-mail or even a phone call and help to clear up misunderstandings. It's worked for me in the past and will probably continue to do so.

Happy hunting!!

[AlabamaSwamper]

I see this still hasn't been settled. ROFL!!!

Guys, no matter how much bickering you do, this question will never be truly answered, never.

To many variables involved to even try to compare studs.

[GREG WELLS]

One variable I look at is how good the best offspring of a sire is. I've been judging field trials for 10 years now in the Mid-West , so I can't speak for hounds earlier than 1994, but some of the best producers in my opinion were IFC Branko's Heli-Prop, IFC Trakarab Pacesetter, IFC Taylor's Sock It To Me, IFC Mark V's Ace In The Hole, FC Turbo Powered By Prop, IFC Melanson's Ranger Dan, and IFC Northway Driver. I don't know how many times these dogs were bred, but I do know that they had several pups and grandpups that were outstanding. Every hound in a dogs pedigree is important, but the one stud that all of these males have in common, if you trace back far enough, is IFC Mt. Zion Pete.

[S.R.Patch]

I agree with you Mr. Wells, the outstanding stallion hound not only produces a large percentage of offspring with exceptional ability but these inturn carry on the gift, it is why you line-breed to these such hounds. Line-breeding is not merely a family thing, but if done correctly, the answer will be seen within the pedigree, line bred to, or from, "whom". It is more than just a mixing of related hounds, but of those related hounds that carry and exhibit the traites you wish to perpetuate, all coming from a common source or member within the line. Any direct line will exhibit more of an infulence upon the pups, then any hound given a "one shot deal" within the pedigree...Patch

[tommyt]

Don't forget Branko's White Blizzard.

[Hilltop Kennels]

!

[KanesIrish]

Hatteras Bob,
how can you say that Striker has been bred much less then Ranger Dan???? Call the AKC see if you can ask them how many times Striker has been bred. I think every Tom, Dick and Harry here in Massachusetts has bred to him.

Would like to know who you heard that fact from?
For the 2004 Futurity there were 9 Striker litters registered for the Futurity and 4 Ranger Dan litters.

[HatterasBob]

KanesIrish,
No one told me, I used reasoning. I figured with the issues surrounding Striker, that there was a lot fewer breedings with Striker then there could have been. I will call / research this issue, but I'll still bet it was less then Ranger Dan by a bunch. With 9 pups at the futurity he must be producing!

[Guest]

Alright guys, who do you think was the best producing male in both Canada and th U.S.

Me!!!!

[liquidcooled]

Guest , We are not talking about inbreeding .

[Steve C.]

I continue to learn new things about Ranger Dan all the time- mostly from guys who never saw him run. Here are a few facts. Ranger Dan spent the summer of '98 in my kennel while I was handling him in the states for Tyson Stone. No one here even knew the dog existed. I bred 2 bitches to him. Once Tom Sharpe bought him I'm fairly sure he bred just 2 bitches of his own to him that year. That's 4 litters for all of '98. It took 11 months to get the CKC papers transferred to Tom's name which took us to summer of '99. I bred another bitch or two during that time, but no one else dared breed to him during that period because no one could say for sure if the paperwork would ever be completed. There were very likely only 6 litters born during '99. That leaves 190 litters born to make 200 over the next 3 years. That's about 63 litters per year. I guarantee he was never bred anywhere near that many times. Not to take anything away from Striker but he was bred at least as many times, if not more than Dan. Both have been outstanding producers. If you wanted conformation you went to Striker, if you wanted nose you went to Dan. Keep in mind that the oldest offspring of Ranger Dan in the states are not yet 6 years old. From the first litter born in the states off Dan, there were just 3 pups. One has all her points but only one win. Another was entered in just 3 trials, winning the 15" class at the Futurity in a pack of 55, and two licensed 2nds in the 13" class. The other little male had several licensed places but was manhandled by a marshall in a trial and ruined for trialing. Most of the pups I had off him were sold to hunters not trialers, and never saw a trial; yet they were liked so well their owners bought more. Had several of these hounds been in the hands of die hard trialers, they would have finished easily. To say that Dan was not a producer is ridiculous. He may not suit everyone but to say otherwise is pure jealousy. The other point that needs to be made is that the proof of a producer is made over time. A dog that has only been bred a few times but has had great results is certainly good but the odds will no doubt catch up to him over time as he breeds more and more inferior bitches, which always happens once a stud becomes popular. You may get the occasional "nick" that gives several champions from one litter but never have another champion in subsequent litters. Until a stud has produced at least 25 litters, there is not enough data to judge the dog's ability to produce.

[SMITTY1233]

Well said.....