In need of opinions

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Laneline
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:46 pm
Location: Cleveland
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Re: In need of opinions

Post by Laneline »

Bunnyblaster wrote:Laneline, I don't understand how you can even get down to a 2nd generation let alone get to a 4th generation that will allow them to have full registration privileges if you have to spay or neuter the dog to become a member in the first place??? You posted a lot of info and I'm probably just missing something but that part didn't make complete sense to me.
The Purebred Alternative Listing {PAL} is different from the Foundation Stock Service & Conditional Registration. I apologize, after reading what I wrote, I really didn’t make it that clear, I kind of merged them together.

To do what you are referring to is “PAL”… http://www.akc.org/reg/ilpex.cfm and with this “as of now”, they require you to have your dog spayed or neutered and to provide two recent and clear color photographs of the dog. But you have no chance of ever getting full registration privileges.

Foundation Stock Service… http://www.akc.org/reg/fss_details.cfm & Conditional Registration... http://www.akc.org/reg/conditional_reg_info.cfm is basically set up for people that have “pure bred” dogs but do not have their paper work, and/or if you had papers on a dog that failed a DNA test. Those that failed, instead of totally “revoking” papers, they offer a “down grade” to the status of “Conditional Registration”, and as a person breeds and keeps accurate records and DNA the pups every generation from then on, on the 4th generation it offers them a second chance to establish their line and once again to receive full registration.

But I do believe “in time” these 3 programs will be combined and a new “open book” program will be established to replace these for “grade dogs” and dogs with failed DNA testing. Each of the above programs were established at different times, but all steps leading up to the inevitable. It might be for “field dogs only”, but I believe it will happen. I can’t foresee those representing the “show ring” ever complying with this.
"Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." - Mark Twain

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Dr. Chris
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:33 pm
Location: PA

Re: In need of opinions

Post by Dr. Chris »

Travis & Dio the dog wrote:I would like to become a member at a local beagle club in my area but my dog Isnt akc registerd so the club is reluctant to let him on grounds in fear he may find a hot female, which I completly understand as accidents do happen. A member told me that the club would consider making me a member if I were to have the dog fixed and then registered which is also no big deal since I had no plans of ever breeding him. My only question is does it affect their desire to hunt as of now there is nothing he would rather do but Id hate to get him fixed and have him turn fat and lazy on me. I really need opinions on this so everyones two cents is welcome
I know of 5 dogs that I have seen “first hand” that have been spayed or neutered and were used for hunting. 3 of them it did not bother their hunt at all. As a matter of fact it helped them with their handling, it settled them down in that area. The other 2, it totally changed them. It took the fire completely out of them and the before and after was like “Jekyll & Hyde”. It totally ruined them. They were completely different dogs.

As far as “them” being afraid that your dog will get with a female in heat? Well, I am sure they are careful about running with “any” male. The fact that you own an “outcast grade dog” is really their problem. You’re asking for opinions? If you like your dog the way he is now, I would not take the risk of changing him. It is their club, so they have the right to request whatever they want, {which has been a major problem for years, in some clubs}, a real wet blanket on progress, the us 4 no more attitude. I wouldn’t change my dog to please anybody, their prejudices are their problems.

I too believe there will be a “open book” registry in the AKC, and there should be. The system now has been proven to be inaccurate through DNA. I know some guys that have “grade dogs” and have kept superb breeding records and are accurate through several generations… Where there have been “some” AKC breeders with false papers, DNA that didn’t match up etc… and AKC have given them 2nd chances over and over again. The good Lord only knows the amount of people that “fudged” over the years before DNA. I think they can use DNA to not only expose false paperwork, but to solidify the purity of so called “grade dogs”.

There is absolutely no difference in giving the guy with an “unknown” sire because of a failed DNA test a second chance at full registration, after breeding 3 generations with accurate records… then opening the books up to “grade dogs” and giving them the same deal, especially responsible breeders that have had years of accurate records. Plus, it would be financially ignorant if they didn’t.

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Fleetwood
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Location: Fleetwood, NC
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Re: In need of opinions

Post by Fleetwood »

"As far as “them” being afraid that your dog will get with a female in heat? Well, I am sure they are careful about running with “any” male. The fact that you own an “outcast grade dog” is really their problem. You’re asking for opinions? If you like your dog the way he is now, I would not take the risk of changing him. It is their club, so they have the right to request whatever they want, {which has been a major problem for years, in some clubs}, a real wet blanket on progress, the us 4 no more attitude. I wouldn’t change my dog to please anybody, their prejudices are their problems." -Dr. Chris

That is GOOD advice. Very well said sir.

dogwhisperer
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:05 pm
Location: ohio

Re: In need of opinions

Post by dogwhisperer »

Sounds to me like they dont want any new members and no matter what you do it aint gonna get you in and if you get in you wont be there long.Almost sounds to me like this is just an excuse,play the game from a different angle tell em your getting akc reg dogs from here on out and you wont bring grade dogs on the grounds. See what kinda bs they have for ya when you tell em that. One more thing is it mandatory for all females to have a brucelosis test done before being on club grounds? Sounds like they must have alot of accidental breedings.
HOF COMP HOF REP GRRCH GRBCH TURBO POWERED BY TURBO
GRRCH BCH POOR BOY POWERED HANK
GRRCH BCH SUGARRUN TRIPLE X
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RCH SUGARRUN ROCK-N-ROOSTER
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Travis & Dio the dog
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:12 pm
Location: South central Pa

Re: In need of opinions

Post by Travis & Dio the dog »

well I made my decision today and Ive decided not to get him fixed, just aint worth it. I dont change myself for anyone Im not about to change my dog for um either. Im the only one the dog needs to make happy. :nod: :nod: :nod:

thanks to everyone for their advice and opinions and time

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