CORN IN DOG FOOD- GOOD OR BAD ?

[mike crabtree]

I run my dogs on farms also. I have never had mine eat a cow or hog, or sheep.

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Should we never feed them beef pork or Lamb????
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- Having said that I guess the only thing I could feed mine would be Chicken, because some of mine in the past caught a chicken or 2.

[NeilKimbrel7]

I believe bev had a good post earlier about corn and carbs. I try to feed a food that has meat as the main ingredient, but i don't believe corn hurts. I've got some friends that run coyote dogs, and they've got a friend that lives in the "hills" that they go and run with from time to time. Not saying I'd advise this but my buddy told me his friends feed nothing but whole corn to his dogs. He says they look poor under most peoples standards but said they can run day and night, putting miles upon miles on the dogs. I think they're a July walker/plot cross. If he can feed only corn, I believe corn can be digested by dogs. I don't know if different breeds handle it the same tho. I tried that natural chicken and it was $27/bag. Fed it a couple months. My dogs stool was always loose and my kennel stunk. That's when I asked him what he thought about corn as a filler and he told me that story. Take it for what it's worth.

[NeilKimbrel7]

Oh, in diamonds defense at that time I had several dogs kenneled together and didn't seperated during feeding. Someone told me a couple dogs may have ate more than their share and that too much feed would cause loose stools....but I dunno

[Bunnyblaster]

One guy said it best i have never seen a pack of beagles grazing in a cornfield.

I see it every year! We plant about a 1/2 acre of sweet corn every year and the dogs will spend alot of time going out in the sweet corn patch and helping themselves to about all they want. They also help themselves to tomatoes, cucumbers and other veggies out of the garden.

but that can't be!! I've never seen dogs voluntarily eat something that gives them absolutely no nutrition like say a plastic spoon or wall insulation!! Now I'm all confused .......are you saying that your dogs actually ate corn without having it jammed down their throat???

Ok, now that I'm all done being sarcastic I like what has been said before. If it works for you financially and in both how your dogs look and act then I say keep doing it. All of the suggestions are good ones because they are based on what has worked for each individual..........you just have to find what works for you. Anything else is just unfair to say your not doing the right thing by feeding kibble or you're wasting your time and money by feeding raw. I've had a couple of discussions with klconcrete before and his raw seems to work really well for him. I've got a buddy that will feed kibble til the day he dies and he has as good of dogs as any I've seen anywhere else.

What works for me??? I still use kibble but I like to add/substitute raw especially in the winter. I've found so far I have better luck with adding raw for extra nutrition through the cold months than if I just give them another scoop of kibble. I personally don't have the available resources at a reasonable price to feed an all raw diet nor do I have the time even if I did.........of course if the savings was there I'd probably make the time I suppose. I will say one thing and that is that they sure do like it when they see me coming with the fresh chicken to add to their bowls!!

[Ken Yerian]

Back in the 50's my Grandfather had a small farm and always had a huge garden. We had to keep his beagles tied up when the sweet corn was on because old Bessie ( solid Blue cap out of Doc Longs Blue Boy who went back to Avon Blue Dispatch) would tear down a stalk to get her a fresh ear of sweet corn, drag it back to the yard under the shade tree and lay there and eat it. There wasn't much to choose from in the way of pet food back then and corn meal was plentiful so a lot of people fed Mush mixed with table scraps, bacon grease, meat scraps from butchering, etc. In the old movies when ever there was a sled dog scene the handlers were always hollaring "Mush "to the huskies so I guess the sled dogs used to be fed corn also. Don't know where the Eskimo's got it though ? We started buying Joy dog food back in the sixties when they started delivering once a month. It was easier than cooking up a kettle of mush every week or two. We still saved the grease, table scraps etc to feed also as nothing went to waste back them. We had a small farm and a big garden also. Always thought that the meat based dog foods and the higher priced lines were gimmicks to make more money off of the rich people that had pets for status symbols. I've expermentd with just about every brand of dog food made and usually come back to purina, esp their puppy chow. I do still save the bacon grease and like to get them some fresh meat scraps once a week for a treat. Still don't like to waste anything.

[bbg]

I trust that the dog food companys have put together a formula that gives the dogs everything their body needs to be healthy. Our beagles are athletes and require a different diet than the average lap dog. Most dog food companys offer a performance blend to account for this. I don't think that the guys feeding strictly raw have as good an idea of what their dogs are getting as those of us feeding kibble. The ingredients are known but the actual nutrition value is not. The dogs health is most important. If they are healthy and satisfied, I'm satisfied.

[wireman252]

After all the great input on this subject , along with the research I've tried to do, I have come to an " opinion ".
I'm not convinced that ground corn is bad to all dogs. Yes maybe some that may have allergic reactions, and possibly for some , hard to digest in that ground form ( to which Bev made a very believable point that in meal form, corn is more digestible).
I fed that buddy boy food for 5 years with no problems. My theory on the food issue is the "wording" of ingredients. Meat meal can consist of any , and every kind of meat. As can "meat bi- products" consist of any and all meats.

I believe this is why , in my case as well as many others , that we can see a change in how our dogs are doing on a particular brand. Possibly the food manufacturer changed where they got their meat source from and the meat source became something new to our dogs. Seems many have had a food work well for some time , then all of a sudden , get a batch that the dogs do poorly on. Most likely these foods all had a form of meat meal or meat bi-product , which could very well be the culprit to the change in food quality.

Seems the food with the most consistency , that has a form of corn , and some kind of bi- product is Black gold. This is of course my conclusion from reading the ingredients along with posts on this thread. Bev stated that an individual ( I assume with the Black Gold company ) stated they always get their ingredients from the same source. Hence the consistency.

For me however , I am going to try the Diamond Naturals with out any corn , meat meal , or bi-products , and see if I get results I expect out of a dog food. The price is very comparable to most " working man" dog foods , and the ingredients seem very simple. Chicken and rice formula 26% protein 16% fat. $20.77 - 40 lb. bag.

[Bev]

Bev stated that an individual ( I assume with the Black Gold company ) stated they always get their ingredients from the same source. Hence the consistency.

The individual I spoke of, John Allen, who with his brother Don, is the owner of Black Gold Premium Pet Food. John owns probably 30 head of Champion Foxhounds -- some show, some working. One of John's prized Foxhounds, one I believe he considered to be the closest thing to perfection, is the dog that appears on the front of the bag. The hound's name was Black Gold. I've seen John's hounds several times -- at the sport show where we set up together, and several summers in a row at the county fair in Brownstown, Indiana. about 25 years ago John and some other started a tradition of putting on a hound show there -- just amazing to see those dogs, they show themselves. As far as I know he still goes and brings his dogs.

Eventually beagles were invited into the arena, and the local kids and hunters were encouraged to bring their hunting beagles and show them as well. SPO Hall of Famer John Stuckwisch invited me to the event so for several years while I owned the magazine, I would take a truckload of dogs to this fair and grab kids out of the audience to handle some of them. Everybody got a trophy. It was fun stuff, but it was really awe-inspiring to watch those Foxhounds at the other end of the arena, too.

[wireman252]

For those interested : Diamond Naturals chicken and rice

Protein: 26% Fat: 16%
Calories: 3,708 kcal/kg (368 kcal/cup) Calculated ME
Sizes Available: 40 lb. and 6 oz. sample
Ingredients

Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, dried beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

[wireman252]

Just to clarify, a couple posts back I stated diamond naturals didn't have any "meat meal" , and I meant just that. It does, however have chicken meal (which is only chicken) and also fish meal ( which is only from fish)
The "meat meal" is one of the things I personally wanted to stay away from. You never know what kind of
"MEAT" is in it.

[Bev]

The "meat meal" is one of the things I personally wanted to stay away from. You never know what kind of
"MEAT" is in it.

See, for the sake of debate, this is where you lose me. What difference does it really make after being processed at such high temperatures? It's not like it's being packaged raw. It could be horse, moose, cow, venison, antelope, rabbit, squirrel.....possum. I've never known my dog to turn her nose up at any animal meat or other protein source. What dead animal she didn't try to eat, she rolled in it. Beagles are the goats of the dog world in respect to what they consider acceptably edible. I've seen them eat enough of each other's turds to know they aren't exactly finicky.

Knowing that the optimum formula and percentages has been met in the kibble, my biggest concern would be proper, safe and consistent processing, and my dog's ability to thrive nicely on it. Unless one's dog has an allergy to corn, there's no advantage to using a rice forumla. Rice is inferior to corn, and I don't see chicken as necessarily superior to "meat." It all spoils. But, at the end of the day, we all gotta feed our dogs what we're comfortable with. To each his own, right?

[wireman252]

I couldn't agree more Bev. To each his own. I can't claim Diamond Naturals is superior to any other food . I do know a fellow houndsmen feeds it with great results and the feed I've used for 5 yrs. has gone bad. My assumption is that the "meat "meal could be the culprit do to inconsistency , and possibly quality of the meat used to make it. Again just a guess on my part. If Black Gold was available to me and at a comparable price I would certainly consider it. I'm simply trying a new food because I'm not happy with the one I've been feeding. Not trying to come across as a know it all. Heck I'm just a rednecked beagler with an opinion and a theory with the info. I have at my disposal.
I also want to thank you Bev , for a place to chat about such things as this. All information is useful no matter what side of the "fence" one may be on with a particular subject. Thank You.

[warddog]

I agree with Bev in that they lose me when they shy away from "meat" of "meat and bone meal" as it is had the sh*t cooked out of it to the point of nearly being sterile and surely it is sanitized. Now comes the other rub for me in that "MEAT" meal offends but Chicken or fish doesn't. What do you suppose is in the 'chicken or fish meal? Yep, everything that isn't allowed to go into your store bought chicken or fish, including dead ones. They may NOT have been road killed but they dies from causes other than slaughter and that is the only reason YOU ain't eatin them. These folks throw absolutely nothing away. I've seen it go to the renderer maggots and all!

[davidc5936]

We all have our own experiences with feeding dogs- some folks try a lot of different feeds, some try for "natural" dog food, others find one that works and stick with it. I have been feeding Purina Dog Chow for many years with good results. I probably don't run my dogs as hard as some of you do, and the winters here in Virginia aren't as cold as New England and the upper Midwest, but this is what has worked for me. My dogs look good, have enough energy to run all day, the stools are solid and easy to clean up and it is consistant- I never have to worry about the quality. The price is good- I paid $20.78 for a 50# bag at Sam's Club last week, so when I have the $7.00 checks, it is a really good deal.
I have confidence that Purina has done more research on dog nutrition than any dog food company out there, they support beagle field trials, it is always available and I can't find any reason to change.
Just my opinion.

[wireman252]

I do understand that chicken and fish bi-products are of the things we can not consume as humans. My only point was at least it is of chicken and fish parts. In fact more than likely the entire carcus that is left over . I have read and think it to be possible , that the actual listing MEAT meal ( not chicken meal , fish meal ect.) in an ingredient list could be things that aren't so great for a dog such as road kill and sick pets from being put down. I have read of this on a site about dog food comparisons. I have no idea if any of what I read was true or not. Just from my personal experience I believe it to be very possible. What else is varialbe in a dog food list of ingredients. Corn is corn right ? Could it be moldy corn that was added? Maybe. But of the ingredients listed on the food I was unhappy with, the MEAT and Bone meal was the only thing that I felt could of had an impact on the change in the formula. This is just an observation of the feed I was using. It worked for many years for me without complaints.........then just like that I didn't like the results. This is just my opinion on my experiences.