CORN IN DOG FOOD- GOOD OR BAD ?

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Had a guy tell us once he couldnt keep weight on dogs and then when the dog came over and pooped it had TAPEWORM!!! i suppose this could go without saying but if you don't worm and treat for fleas it isn't gonna matter much your dog with look like garbage..

But, I usualy feed my dogs stuff that makes them poop less at the cheapest price then suppliment with actual food, eggs, oils, beef, chicken, turkey, etc to make sure they keep lookin pretty good

[ohlinger]

Had a guy tell us once he couldnt keep weight on dogs and then when the dog came over and pooped it had TAPEWORM!!! i suppose this could go without saying but if you don't worm and treat for fleas it isn't gonna matter much your dog with look like garbage..

But, I usualy feed my dogs stuff that makes them poop less at the cheapest price then suppliment with actual food, eggs, oils, beef, chicken, turkey, etc to make sure they keep lookin pretty good

Lol !!!! You might be on to something with this one!!

[Bev]

Meat Meal (as vague as it is ) is the first ingredient but there are 5 corn and grain sources next in line so really there is much more grain in a bag than is let on.

As far as labeling goes, I thinks it's a requirement that ingredients be listed in the order of percentage that they exist in the food, i.e. whatever's most gets listed first, the second most ingredient is listed second, etc. Same with people food. What you say may or may not be the case, only that the meat source is the highest single ingredient. For example, if the meat source is 45%, corn meal is 20%, wheat 5%, rice 5%, and whatever else %5, they still don't equal up to 45%. Add the chicken to the meat and the percentage of protein is greater still.

John Allen told me himself that he doesn't buy meat from the lowest priced vendor of the day, that he uses a regular source. As far as "meal" it just pertains to the consistency the meat (or corn) is taken down to before combining the ingredients into kibble (which is cooked at a particular temperature and then cooled down at a precise rate.) If it's made into meal, then it will be more digestible, and less likely to cause digestive difficulty.

Dog food companies could use 100% of the same ingredients but if they don't store it properly, use it right away, cook it at the right temperature for the right amount of time, cool it down at the correct rate, and a dozen other things, it can effect the quality of the kibble. For instance, on the increased fat dog foods, do they add the fat right into the kibble, or do they spray it over the outside of the kibble where part of it is left on the bag and on your hands?

A lot goes into making dog food. I'm glad I'm not in that industry, lol.

[warddog]

All the inedible byproducts in the meat and poultry slaughter houses go to the renderers. They take all this STUFF and run it through a process in which it is cooked at ultra high temperatures which turns it into a meal. I've been in this industry for nearly 30 years and spent time in both meat and poultry slaughter plants in which every one of them have this so called offall picked up by a rendering comp-any. It used to be that the rendering companys would pay the slaughter establishments for this inedible product but now days the establishments have to pay them to pick it up. The fact is that ALL the junk goes into one trunk, so to speak, in that the same offall truck making it's way through it's pickup route of the samll plants and stores dumps ALL the junk into the same garbage truck. The big slaughter plants are normally not on such a route as they have semi load after semi load of offall during the plants daily operations. I have seen in a turkey slaughter plant where all the junk went into one truck including the feathers and the same goes for hog or beef slaughter plants. Plants that slaughter both hogs and beef have the offall all going into the same truck. In the small plants they send all the indeible from every species they slaughter to the renderer. This can be any or all beef, swine, deer, buffalo, sheep, goats, water buffalo etc going into the same rendering truck. Remember this is everything from all these carcasses that don't go into the consumers package including all bones,fat, guts, heads, abcessed parts, bruises etc. Oh yeah road kill and animales that die prior to slaughter go into this as well. I don't know how it can truely be differentiated between what is what when it's ALL meat and or bone meal when rendered.

[klrconcrete]

What kind of meat? I feed all raw meat and veggies to my dogs, I purchase my "meat" which is ground beef or chicken which ever I decide to use -nothing more nothing less- (with no vague labeling) from a mink rancher who keeps this and other assorted products in bulk to feed his stock (which is between 1000- 5000 mink depending on the time of the year). My basic formula is beef or chicken, dried powdered fish, oatmeal or rice, a mix of veggies- straight from the local grocery, an egg once or twice a week and some beef fat during the winter months or after long runs. The reason I ask what kind of meat is beacause I have asked what becomes of all the mink carcuses after slaughter and low and behold the biggest market for them (about 10 cents per pound) is pet feed! They are sent to a rendering plant in Wisconsin which turns them into a slurry then dried, ground and packaged and shipped to whomever needs cheap "meat meal" that particular day. Sound yummy? It gets better this same plant takes in any animal carcus and does the same to it, feline, canine, rodent, etc. they all are returned to the food chain as cheap low grade pet feed and other assorted products - oils or greases which are used as a base for cosmetics and make-ups come from these same facilities. What really bothers me about this process when I think about it is at the end of the slurry, dry, grind process is What sort of nutrition does it offer at the point where my dog eats it?, and is it even still "meat"? Black Gold and lots of others say it is so it must be. Kurt

[Bev]

In the defense of all of them, and I do believe most of the bigger dog food companies have done their share of research, if their product didn't keep the dogs in good shape or well-fed, they wouldn't be in business very long. It doesn't serve them well in business to purposefully make food that wasn't nutritional or safe.

[klrconcrete]

I dont think any dog food company produces unsafe food- on purpose- ever. They wouldnt be in buisness long. I do question the nutritional value of almost every brand and formula out there, to read the bags or thier websites and advertising you would swear that they bagged up thanksgiving dinner cooked by your mom and or grandmother and sold it to you on a break even profit margin! In reality they have put together a feed using the cheapest ingredients possible to fit the criteria of the formula to maximize profits. Sure it sustains dogs but does it allow a dog operate at full capacity? I read posts on these boards where people reply to questions about feed and most go something like " I pay 18.00 for forty pounds and its always worked well for me, dogs look good, act good, and their coats just shine" I would like to ask some of the people that reply that way What is the comparison being used? More than likely they are comparing it to the last stuff they fed that was 18.50 for forty pounds which is what motivated them to make the switch.

[2500 HD]

What kind of meat? I feed all raw meat and veggies to my dogs, I purchase my "meat" which is ground beef or chicken which ever I decide to use -nothing more nothing less- (with no vague labeling) from a mink rancher who keeps this and other assorted products in bulk to feed his stock (which is between 1000- 5000 mink depending on the time of the year). My basic formula is beef or chicken, dried powdered fish, oatmeal or rice, a mix of veggies- straight from the local grocery, an egg once or twice a week and some beef fat during the winter months or after long runs. Kurt

just curious..."which ever I decide to use- nothing more nothing less." HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO FEED IS WHAT YOUR DOG NEEDS???

[warddog]

As to the ingredient labeling it is the law that they be labeled in descending order of predominance. I believe this goes for dog food just as it does for meat and poultry products with more than a single ingredient.
The rendering companies heat ALL this stuff to such a high temperature, under pressure I believe that it will become nearly sterile. At that point the dogs will be eating meal of the same quality regardless of whether it came from a road killed deer, mink carcass or a fresh butchered beef. There has been much written about mad cow disease and it has become well known that the use of this rendered material was used in ALL animal feed and has been proven to be one method of cows being infected with the mad cow disease. After that discovery the FDA banned the use of ruminant offall in ruminant feeds so that they think they eliminated the ruminant to ruminant feeding which would then reduce the possibility of recontaminating the ruminate feed supply. I don't know how that could be possible from what I have seen when these offall trucks pick stuff up, as I said it all gets dumped into the same garbage trucks. I do know that there are different grades of grease rendered off so I'm wondering if there are different grades of meal as well. I would think that meat and bone meal would be meat and bone meal regardless of what meat and or bone it was ultra high heated to. Oh the reason for banning ruminant to ruminant feeding of ultra high temperate processed meal is that the mad cow prion that causes the disease has the ability to withstand these ultra high processing temperatures.

[klrconcrete]

Well its actually raw beef and chicken, vegetables, etc. etc. Can you find a kibble that is as nutritious as this kind of diet, know whats in it, and satisfy the dogs as well as my concerns for them? Dry kibbles that I have fed that I liked and felt were the "better" choices in this feed were Timberwolf Organics, ( very expensive around 2.00 per pound - I feed raw for less than a buck most of the time) and Canidae- it was rated within the top ten on one of the dog food rating sites available online, again I paid well over a buck and a half a pound three years ago when I fed it last and can feed raw cheaper most times. If you feed something like Hi-Standard or even Purina for that matter the quality isnt there like they like you to believe -IMO. Feed away!

[HAREHOUND]

all i know for sure is that i don't know for sure what i am feeding my dog from a bag of dog food. but when i feed my dog a chicken leg quarter i know exactly what i am feeding them. it's chicken. it is no different with myself. i would rather eat something that i raised, grew in the garden, or picked or shot in the woods. the reason is that i know what i'm eating and not taking someone elses word for what's all in there. i guess it just makes sence in my head. for the most part my dogs eat chicken/beef/venison/salmon oil/eggs and some veggies. i run my dogs hard and i think they look great. i guess if yours look great too, keep feeding what your feeding.

[ohlinger]

In the defense of all of them, and I do believe most of the bigger dog food companies have done their share of research, if their product didn't keep the dogs in good shape or well-fed, they wouldn't be in business very long. It doesn't serve them well in business to purposefully make food that wasn't nutritional or safe.

Dog food is montiored by the F.D.A just the same as human food is. Tallow is usualy the fat ingredient for controling the amount of fat in dog food. The meat is bought in 40-60 lb blocks. it comes in pallots. Beef is usualy beef scraps. That have hit the floor in butcher shops. Chicken and turkery is chicken and turkey necks. Lamb is sheep scraps just the same as beef is wieghed and blocked and frozen sold by the pallets. Tallow is just a thick grease of fat. When you read ingredients lables the %'s say not less than a set amount. The meat and tallow are added in the same rooms. "Slurry" kitchens. That is where hte meat is put in a grinder then goes to a tank where the tallow is added. Then it's mixed up into "slurry" and its pumped a cook tank. There is steam cooked at a very high temperature with lots of pressure and sent to another room to mix with the dry indgredients. The dry ingredients are you're rice, corn, or wheat, and preservatives, salt, and other such ingredients. all products are F.D.A approved. The dry ingredients Corn, wheat, and rice are only fillers and really offer no nutritional value to could'nt be found elsehwere, corn,wheat and rice basicaly just control the consistency of the dog food to either semi moist, or bagged dry kibble feed. One guy said it best i have never seen a pack of beagles grazing in a cornfield. I have seen them eating grass though b/c they have upset stomachs, and end up vomiting next. why do they have upset stomachs ? Either worms or sick or a dog food that is'nt doing them justice. If you're going to own performance dogs and expect them to perform you need to be able to offer them what they need to perform at the best of there ability physcially. I don't believe these 18.50 for 50lb bags are offering everything they need ot be able to perform. I worked in a dog food factory for 2 years. I made the meat slurry and dry mix at this factory. We were a Purina pet food company but we made ol roy and a couple other brands at the same factory as well. the only difference was the a slight stweaking of the formulas by a few percents all the same ingredients were used as far as the meat tallo,corn srup, or fructose, and dry mix corn wheat, and rice are concerned.

[ohlinger]

hands down with out question, if you can find the resources to do it, Raw diet is with out doubt the best way to go as far as price and health is concerned. You don't see athletes stuffing there faces with potato chips all day long and go out and run marathons.It's the same concept for You're dogs they are athletes just the same.However dogs and humans require different things in there diets, They require a certain amount of nutrition to be at there peak. It's not as simple as just monitoring how much they $hit and how much there ribs are showing. It just depends on how much you care i guess. If you can find a routine and resources to feed a raw diet then more power to you b/c you can't beat it! Do some homework. If not then look into some of the meat based dog food you're going to pay more money for a bag but you ultimately end up saving money b/c you won't have to feed you're dogs nearly as much food a day to maintain a good health, and weight and energy as you would when feeding you're 18.50 a bag sportmix or pride 24/14 maintenance formulas. Whenever chaging dog foods it really take a bout 2 months to really be able to tell a difference. At first they poop more or less, or they weight may change, or coats change, but it takes about a solid 2 months of feeding to realy be able to tell how you're dogs are doing on it. b/c feeding dry kibble that is the only source of nutrition and engery they are receiving, and there bodies will teach themselves how to absorb what it needs differently in each change of food.

[ohlinger]

The first step in keeping you're dogs healthy is make sure they stay disease and parasite free. Then start looking at how they are doing on a certain dog food vs. another.

[Aaron Bartlett]

One guy said it best i have never seen a pack of beagles grazing in a cornfield.

I see it every year! We plant about a 1/2 acre of sweet corn every year and the dogs will spend alot of time going out in the sweet corn patch and helping themselves to about all they want. They also help themselves to tomatoes, cucumbers and other veggies out of the garden.