Check Your Patch Pedigree`s

[bill huttozac]

Having stepped back from this thread for a day or so, just to get a better prospective, I have come to the following conclusions:

1) Those effected by this dishonest deed deserve our sympathy. But for chance, it could have been you or me.
2) There are a number of Patch bloodline Beaglers that have placed post on this thread. Some being flippant and others rather emotional. No one should fault either position. Some of us are more or less sensitive than others
3) True that after three generations of breeding, Certificates may be reclassified from Conditional to Regular Registration. This is of some consolation, but not much to the one that views his hounds as kennel foundation stock. For me, three years is a long time to be patient. I am not sure that three generations of breeding makes a dog's breed "pure". It does go a long way in diluting the impurities.
4) Next, as for as the Registration Certificates on my dogs, I am like many others , no way can I be assured that all of the information is true, only those that I managed the breeding. While there are three generations of males that carry DNA profiles, I have not had parentage verification searches done so that presents another possible question.
5) Bucksbetterbeagles posed this question: "Would we be having this conversation if this didn't involve patch hounds? I wonder. Surely, bad papers follow many other breeders around"
I expect that there would be a limited discussion if it involved a different bloodline, just depends on how passionate the owners of that line were and how many owners and dogs were effected. About a year ago, similar problems were detected in Gay bred dogs from a certain kennel. To my knowledge, a public discussion never came about, but the number of private messages circulated were plentiful.
6) There are only a few members on this board that know each other personally. But through reading what one says in a post, a fairly accurate opinion can be and usually is drawn by others.

Hopefully, this matter will be resolved in a manner that all effected will find satisfaction. This problem is in no way peculiar to Beagles, it has occurred in the registrations of most breeds, which does not make it less of a crime.

[cojax]

well stated bill nice job

[Bev]

I'll have to ask for a review by the Queen and get back to you on that one...

I did get an invite to a dinner, would you be available?

Dear Charles
Please find below and also as an attachment an application form for our Hunt Lunch on the 12th November at The Meon Hall. The Joint Masters will be delighted if you could join us for the evening and make a small profit for the Hunt. There will be a raffle and therefore prizes or donations would be gratefully received either before or on the night. Last year we had a really nice time and hope that this year it will be equally enjoyable. If you do not have evening dress but would still like to attend please ring or email Lynn.
Kind regards
Lynn and Robin
Joint Masters

Meet cards will be out shortly with the Opening Meet on 30th October

*********

Cripes, Patch. I'm gonna have to decline. Shotgun season opens the next day. I'll loan you one of my evening dresses, though. Give the Queen my regards.

[S.R.Patch]

We'll do........

[ryan durham]

All I have to do is advertise them as "Republican" hounds, untrue to their heritage

Well see, there you go. Take one of those foreign Democratic dogs with bad papers and it can become President. Who needs AKC, right?

"foreign Democratic dogs" thats a good one, lol Bev no one gets the last word in on you!!!

[Aaron Bartlett]

"foreign Democratic dogs" thats a good one, lol Bev no one gets the last word in on you!!!

You have been a member of this board for over 3 years and your just figuring that out???? LOL!
To keep this post on topic im curious if the picture at the top of the board of Owen and the litter of Patch pups is out of the dogs in question in this thread????

[S.R.Patch]

All I have to do is advertise them as "Republican" hounds, untrue to their heritage

Well see, there you go. Take one of those foreign Democratic dogs with bad papers and it can become President. Who needs AKC, right?

"foreign Democratic dogs" thats a good one, lol Bev no one gets the last word in on you!!!

Ryan,
Your comment reeks of youthful inexperience. Having the "last word" means nothing, (tried it once with my father back in 75', that didn't work out to well... ). To evaluate the success of "having the last word", one need only look around themselves at the cost or gain in values from lessons learned. Some "having the last word" can be very costly, if your wrong. While other, "having the last words" can provoke thought an save costly mistakes to others. This brings to mind the time in most everyone's life when their children grow up and the "apron strings" are cut. You trust the up-bring you've given and offer any helpful advice, but in the end, the children will have the "last word" in the decisions they make in their life and then, "sleep in the proverbial, "BED THEY'VE MADE"...
The "Big Picture" is worth more than all the small banter, trust me...

[S.R.Patch]

"foreign Democratic dogs" thats a good one, lol Bev no one gets the last word in on you!!!

You have been a member of this board for over 3 years and your just figuring that out???? LOL!
To keep this post on topic im curious if the picture at the top of the board of Owen and the litter of Patch pups is out of the dogs in question in this thread????

Aaron,
You'll have to be more specific, can you post a point in the pedigree that your in question about, or is this "green-eye" drivel you've come up with?...

[TC]

tsa la gi writes frosty dog was old and possibly dead in the late 90's, when in fact the litter registration from the AKC states in was born in 12-97". This being the case, I think that AKC was remiss in their responsibility to determine the capability of Frosty to sire a litter of pups. I am sure that AKC would not know if Frosty was dead or alive but a red flag should have goneup if Frosty was 10 or 11 years of age and produced a 6 or 7 pup litter.
.

If Frosty was born in Sept 1991 she couldn`t have been whelped 12/2/1997 akc documented.

Every one is rolling mad at the breeder over this issue but there is a registry that has all the information on their desk that could have seen this in the very beginning. That should have recognized this issue when it happened. None of this would have happened if this great registry was actually doing the job that they take our money to do. I would say that the registry is more accountable for this then any one else for they are paid to document and verify the lineage of dogs registered with them. If any thing the registry was more worried about getting money for registering a pup/litters then anything then down the road oops a breeder lied guess what guys all you that paid for them to register dogs is out of all that money and now guess what you now have to pay up another fee to verify your lines. How right is that when it is their fault that they didn't catch this in the beginning. How can a dog have/produce pups before they were born. Chicken before the egg. Oh and what happened to having to have the dog vet checked at age 10 to prove it can produce? Guess that just slipped by too. So lets just point the finger at the breeder that way we don't look bad for not doing our job.

Yes we all have responsibility when we are producing/breeding purebred pups, but the registry is supposed to be verifying the submitted information. If a pedigree/registration don't line up wouldn't you think that a red flag should be running up?

I would think that they would be looking closer to the signatures on the litter registration papers as well to verify who signed it and if it don't look right send a letter to the parties involved, how hard is that? To many people and dogs are involved now for AKC not to have some of the weight on their shoulder, if it were me I would be so mad at AKC to begin with, how do we know they aren't messing up more registrations and no one finds out till 13 years down the road. How do we know it wasn't something that AKC did and not the breeder, however maybe the breeder didn't look at the papers when he got them back to make sure they were accurate, but then again this is supposed to be a trusted registry and who would go through the registration to make sure all the ped it correct or better yet, how many of us request the litter registration pedigree so this very well could be a complete AKC error. And then I have seen where others have had registration errors on pedigrees and to get AKC to correct those errors it is like pulling teeth and they tell the owner of dog/pups that they are the ones that need to prove the mistake? Maybe this happened but no one is going to know that either because AKC isn't going to tell you that happened are they?

[LR Patch]

You have been a member of this board for over 3 years and your just figuring that out???? LOL!
To keep this post on topic im curious if the picture at the top of the board of Owen and the litter of Patch pups is out of the dogs in question in this thread????

Arron ,
Your answer is no , can't remember , but it's spoken in this thread maybe the 1st post he posted.

[S.R.Patch]

I thought the little 12 year old girl filled out the papers?...oh right,... but the owner/breeder still had to sign them.
For $10 maybe we could be required to go a Notary of the public and get our papers stamped in the future?

Funny, who on these boards talk one way and respond another way.
I don't need the Gov. or the AKC more in my business... accountability and responsibility starts and ends at home...

[sammiller03]

"foreign Democratic dogs" thats a good one, lol Bev no one gets the last word in on you!!!

You have been a member of this board for over 3 years and your just figuring that out???? LOL!
To keep this post on topic im curious if the picture at the top of the board of Owen and the litter of Patch pups is out of the dogs in question in this thread????

No, none of my dogs are involved....Thank God..


sam

[Aaron Bartlett]

Aaron,
You'll have to be more specific, can you post a point in the pedigree that your in question about, or is this "green-eye" drivel you've come up with?...

SR,
I have always tried to make it a point not to get into mind games with an unarmed person. If you have been actually reading this thread and paying attention your question is a pretty poor one.

LR & Sam,
Thanks for your reply. Glad to hear that litter isnt involved. Nice looking pups! I like the white one......Ghost would be a good name for it!

[S.R.Patch]

Sorry Arron,
Thought you actually had some knowledge of pedigree... ... my mistake...

[sammiller03]

aaron,


I think im keeping the white one.. Gonna name him Spook


sam