Most respected field trial organization?

[gamekeepers worst enemy]

Pull your head out of the sand gamekeeper. You just keep all of your confidence and money in that PET registry. Hell they are better, you can get a cheap vaccum and a credit card from them. AKC is a joke for a real hunter. You must be a pet owner not a hunter. The beagle field trials are their red headed step child. You do not matter to them.

[Steve C.]

The last post is partially correct but I'll remind you that here in New England we've been running AKC Large Pack trials since 1926. They have always put the hunting dog first and all other registries have a LOT of catching up to do before I can assign the same level of credibility. That's not to say that they won't eventually catch up, but I'm not ready to accept them this soon. They are attempting to reinvent the wheel, and the wheel was never broke around here.

[DRamey]

At least it WAS an Oreck and not a Hoover! I'm not familiar with what happened to the AKC trials before the 70's and after the early 80's so I'm hesitant to come to any solid conclusions. BUT it seems to me that the AKC didn't really push to promote the hard hunting, driving hound until after the other registries began to create some honest competition. Now, I'm more than ready to be corrected if this is not the case. I'm mainly interested in finding out some history on the AKC trials in New England as the last post discussed.

[Steve C.]

DRamey, most of us who run AKC Large Pack were left scratching our heads when we heard people refer to AKC hounds as "walkie-talkies" or "peanut rollers". We knew they were talking about Brace hounds but if they were at one extreme of the spectrum then we in Large Pack were surely at the other. We in New England, along with New York, Michigan and much of Canada have been running the same type of hard hitting hunting dogs that Hiram Card, Willett Randall, Maurice Sampson and "Fish Creek" Jones were running in the early part of the century. Some of the guys still competing today ran with some of these guys. It's a little aggravating to hear people say that one of the newer registries saved the breed when nothing had changed on half the continent. Our bloodlines have successfully crossed back and forth with Canadian hounds for decades and most of us can trace our pedigrees back to Hiram Card's Blue Caps. We've always hunted with the same hounds we trial. Many of the hounds running in today's AKC Midwest Association, UKC and ARHA are in fact at least partially from our northern hare bloodlines. I agree that AKC has done little to promote the hunting dog, but a lot of us think that we didn't need their help. Nothing against the other registries, we just never saw anything wrong with our dogs as they have always been.

[Guest]

GOOD JOB STEVE !!

[DRamey]

Steve, thanks. I think I have an idea why you guys were doing what you were doing without a lot of publicity. Could it have been that you had a good thing going and didn't want a lot of notoriety? Kind of like when you discover a new place to hunt with no tire tracks and don't want a bunch of what we call in Ky yeahoos who don't know what they are doing following you and messing up all the fun? Or is it that it took a lot of beaglers a while to get around to the idea of speed, drive, AND control? I'm just thinking out loud, but in any case, best wishes and thank you for your reply. It's very interesting to me to find out what fellow beaglers have been doing through the years as well as what's going on now.

[ALSwamper]

I don't care what registery anyone runs in, if they don't have a "certification" then I'm always gonna be weary of all champions. I've seen AKC SPO champions run, some good, some I wouldn't breed to if the owner paid me.

I've also hunted over several ARHA PP champions and all, I mean all, were really good hounds worthy of a title.

I've also hunted over a few LP champs down here all were worthy but they still didn't certify.

[Steve C.]

DRamey, I don't know that there was ever any thought about keeping things to ourselves; I think more likely we were all in our own little world (big enough when you tried to run the whole circuit) and never gave much thought to what was going on in the rest of the country. While there were Brace trials going on in southern New England, we never paid any attention to them. None of the cottontail guys ever were interested in our hounds and vice versa until the gundog movement (AKC SPO) began in the south. Many of our hounds were sent south to mix with the cottontail bloodlines in order to hopefully put a bit more hunt and desire back into the bloodlines. Still, I think so many folks in the south had gotten burned by buying AKC Brace hounds as hunting dogs that ALL AKC hounds were branded as worthless for hunting. Remember, Brace hounds of the '50's were as good as any hounds ever produced but over the next few decades they were slowed down to the point of being worthless as a hunting dog. Elmer Gray and others warned of this over and over but his words were not heeded. Fortunately, just as the breed could be slowed down by breeding so too could they be speeded up and some of the early SPO guys accomplished that. But the stigma of AKC hounds was hard to beat and these other registries saw their chance and took full advantage of it. They gave most beaglers what they asked for. AKC SPO has had their ups and downs. At one time Jessamine County was the most prestigious event on the continent with huge entries and competition from all over the US and Canada. Famous judges were hired from all over the continent and my friend George Steeves from Canada judged there many times and told me how great a trial it was. I don't know what caused the downturn in attendance there in the last few years and don't want to open that chapter but all in all, the Midwest Association has been tremendously successful. The sport is still growing and there is certainly room for everyone but the history of LPH trials is rich indeed and goes back to a time few beaglers alive today can remember. The legendary hounds like Wally of Floline and Mt. Zion Pete are still spoken of today though they have been gone for decades. The tradition is what, in my mind separates the AKC LPH trials from all the rest.

[Guest]

i run arha lp and love it

[DG TX]

Steve pretty much told it like it was. In the 30's thru the late 50's men like he named were winning in both AKC Large Pack and Brace with the same hounds. Joe Eberle and Purl Skaggs come to mind as some acid testers! I have read thier comments of the past.
I judged some of those first hounds of the Large Pack/Cottontail lines in the South. FC Cane Country Jennie comes to mind. Frank Reese said she was one of the best! I agree and include some of her pups.
One last note. There are NON HUNTING Beagles finishing on the UKC bench today. Everyone has thier "skeletons"...

[lee ga]

all formats are flawed. some adhere to a strict point system and some don't have competent judges. as steve said there is a rich history with akc large pack and with competent judges it carries a lot of weight with me.

[cshannon]

personally i like ukc

[Cork Legue]

Hey Gamekeeper Come run with the big boys and you won't think that way anymore!! I've run them all..There is good dogs in all of them!!

[DarrinG]

If you run ARHA trials and attend a AKC trial, dont make the mistake of telling them you run some in ARHA......you'll get a cold shoulder from most the rest of the day. I made that mistake at the last AKC trial I attended.

[Bubba Gump]

DG TX,

What is your big bone with UKC. You take every opportunity to criticize them. I assume that the TX in you name means that you are from Texas. If that is true then you have NOTHING to base your loud mouth opinions on. That is because until recently I have never heard of a UKC trial in Texas. You remind me of my kids. I make them something new for dinner and they scream that they don't like it even before they try it. Is that how you were as a kid? I assume so.

Tell us all how you get your great knowledge about UKC Beagles all the way down in Texas. It sounds more to me like you got your feelings hurt along the way. Keep hiding over there in AKC. After all they are now the smallest field trial organization in the United States. Look at the numbers.