Breeders pitching their dogs

[bill huttozac]

My opinion after reading many For Sale Ads, Kennel Site claims and listening to the brags of houndsmen.
There seems to be no end to what a breeder will say about his dogs. Very few Beaglers will post a message with anything but "glowing" remarks. Hummmm ..... I guess there are many of us out here owning and feeding the culls. It is only natural that a Beagler will take much pride in the bloodline that he feeds and runs. For whatever it is, it suits that person. It bothers me to hear a person tout their dogs as being near perfect and "walk on water". Example; A few days ago, while surfing Beagle Sites, I ran across a Kennel Ad representing their hounds as being "pure ______" bloodline. All houndsmen that are both knowledgeable and honst, would never make such a statement. We know that no bloodline is "Pure", maybe tighly inbred/linebred, but not pure. All bloodlines started with grade dogs and we can call them anything we like, they are still grade dogs.
The point that I would like to make that we should not "stretch the truth'. We have both, young and new Beaglers that read these post. They are tomorrow's "keepers of the breed" and are entitled to unadulterated information as a base from which to build their knowledge.

[allniter]

it's like the guy writing an add up to sale his dog ---after he read it a couple time ---he changed his mind --heck that is dog I have been looking for --I'm not going to sale him

[Duke]

If you go back and check you might see that I have posted some pups that have had some faults and clearly stated them. The price also reflected the faults. I have also given faulty hounds away for hunting that I did not think made the grade for me to sell. Most are still owned by the persons I have given them too and they still enjoy hunting over them.

I am afraid your statement does paint with a broad brush. I think there are many honorable breeders on this site.

Anytime anything is for sale there will be those that stress the good points and pass over the bad.... with hounds all it will do is quickly give you a bad name. The fact is your name and reputation take years to build and only seconds to tear them down.

[Casey Harner]

I have a problem when people get upset when someone is proud or is bragging on their hound a little bit. I mean let the guy or gal have some glory for goodness sake. I do agree that we all should let the buyers know that the dogs have a certain fault in his hunting traits, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be proud of them and brag a little bit. I always brag on the basketball court or baseball field. You just gotta back it up when your cornered or when the game is on the line. I hate it when the NFL fines the player for showboating. I love watching touchdown dances, its grown men loving the game like they did when they were kids... Just like when we all got our first beagle, we all thought it was the best around...... I agree with the above poster there are probably more honest people on here than dis honest. Watch the dog run first and there won't be any problems.


All I want to say is, tell the truth about the faults that a certain litter might have or what your older hound contains, don't lie about it. But above all be proud of your line of hounds and don't let anyone take that alway from you.

[bill huttozac]

Duke - I feel bad that you took my comments personal. They were not directed at you or anyone specifically. I was not aware that you even had a post to sell your pups. I trust that you did not advertize them as eing PURE bloodline.

Harner's Hounds - You understood where I was going. (We should not misrepresent our dogs)

Alniter - Enjoyed your good sense of humor.

[Casey Harner]

I understand what you meant. I just feel like when we take pride and brag a little people look down on it. I'll brag all I want on my Moe dog, he makes me proud and I am happy I bought him.

[JCM]

My opinion after reading many For Sale Ads, Kennel Site claims and listening to the brags of houndsmen.
There seems to be no end to what a breeder will say about his dogs. Very few Beaglers will post a message with anything but "glowing" remarks. Hummmm .....

Welcome to the world of Internet beagling where the dogs don't do the talking, the keyboard does.

I just smile when I read about someone having a great line of dogs, but they have only seen a few out of the line, and only under a few conditions,

Or

an 8 week old pup is the foundation for their kennel,

Or

a started pup is going to be the next world beater,

Or

everyone should breed to their dog, even though they got it from someone else, and don't even know how his line will reproduce.

I really enjoy this site, but there is the problem of Internet beaglers, where a guy that has had dogs for two months carries as much weight as someone that has had them all of their life. Someone that has never won a hunt/trial seems as knowledgeable as someone that has won everything. Newbie rabbit hunters give more advise than someone that has hunted for 50 years.

I have to laugh when I read some of the posts and some of the ads.

[BCBeagles]

I am going to go from the other end of this. I have seen and heard guys in this there whole lives and not know crap about a dog. I AM BY NO MEANS AN EXPERT, but I
have seen, here in WV, and in other areas say. This is a well above average hound, or this dog hunts hard, or this dog runs a great line, and they are NONE of those things.
I want to believe that people will not outright lie, but I sometimes wonder if the "knowledge of years of hunting" ever sunk in. Some guys don't pay enough attention to know
the faults of there hounds or just disregard them. I will not discredit anyone until they prove that to me themselves. This question of "pure" is watered down and I won't deny
that at all, but I know I am careful not to judge what someone knows or has seen. When I see myself beginning to doubt it makes me more aware of what I want and
am looking for. I am not going to overlook an add as BS or as the gospel. I will find out for myself and then go from there. JMO. Thanks.

[Casey Harner]

My opinion after reading many For Sale Ads, Kennel Site claims and listening to the brags of houndsmen.
There seems to be no end to what a breeder will say about his dogs. Very few Beaglers will post a message with anything but "glowing" remarks. Hummmm .....

an 8 week old pup is the foundation for their kennel,

I am not going to breed her unless she works out to her full potential, I've seen dogs out of her line that produce into some nice dogs, I have no doubt she will. But if she don't, I will sale her and start over.

[Checkpoint Beagles]

BC,

I agree with you 100%. I had a guy a few years ago try to sell a buddy of mine a couple of dogs with the same bloodline he was looking for. The old guy (with 40 years exp) said the dogs had good confirmation, so we went down to look at them. Legs crooked as a creek, underbite, short ears, you name it. Now I don't think the guy lied, I believe that he had no idea of what he had. I run into 30-40 year beaglers all the time that are clueless. They have a kennel full of babblers, line stealers, skirters and swingers and don't know the difinition of any of these terms.

One more story since I have time. A guys been trying to guy hunting with me for years. He has a dog that he kills rabbits over, and we finally get together. We got into the field, mid morning, very cold. Maybe 10-15 degrees. His dog started a line a took off on a trot. My dogs got none of it. They came back to me, went back to the other dog, couldn't smell this rabbit. His dog was moving this rabbit at a slow trot, no breakdowns, no checks, where-ever this dogs nose was, there was the track. I told him his dog wasn't running a rabbit and he lost it. My dogs finally went out and jumped their own rabbit. After an hour or so, I had this dog completly figured out. It would run a rabbit. (and not to bad) But if it didn't have one, it would lay a line. He had hunted over this dog for years and never knew it was a liar. He had talked about how it could run a rabbit all day a never lose it. The dog would follow a false trail for hours. We ended up killing a few rabbits and I think he learned more about rabbits dogs that afternoon than he had the previous 20 years. The point here is the guy wasn't lying about his dog. He just didn't know. I think a lot of beaglers are in the same boat. 40 years of experence means nothing if you don't understand what you're looking at.

Tim

[bucks better beagles]

Bill, when you buy a dog, you also buy the man. Not every man can reference a dog properly. To do so requires that he know to whom he is talking. You have to speak the same language so to speak. I hesitate to call people liars but some are notorious misrepresenters simply because they cannot use the language. An example of this is a veteran talking to a non veteran. No matter how much you try to tell this person about Vietnam, he will never understand. He can't. He wasn't there so the only reference he has is what he has seen on tv or read in a book.

When I buy a dog, words mean nothing until I can get a handle on the man doing the talking. Does he seem knowledgeable. Does he seem sincere? Who has he run with? etc. etc. Then, and only then, I begin to listen to him describe his dog.

[bill huttozac]

bucks better beagles -The following is a excerpt from my original comment;

"Example; A few days ago, while surfing Beagle Sites, I ran across a Kennel Ad representing their hounds as being "pure ______" bloodline. All houndsmen that are both knowledgeable and honst, would never make such a statement."

I agree with your response. And the above statement is pretty much in line with what you are saying. I used the word "knowledgeable".
I am sure that a person without knowledge would not misrepresent his hound because he would not know what the dog was supposed to be like. For the person with knowledge and lacking integrity, I do believe that greed is the the primary reason. Yes, definition of terms vary from person to person. Such as hunt, speed, checkwork, carry a line, etc., this we understand as each of us may have a different interputation of these words.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Selling hounds is a very interesting and at times frustrating deal.I'm 59 years old and have been following hounds on coon,cat,bear and all the species of rabbits for 45 years now.I am now and have always been a small kennel never keeping more than 4-5 hounds and I keep females almost exclusively.I keep the females for two reasons,one because I like their personalities better and two because I very much enjoy putting together the crosses that I think will work well and I like to raise and start my own pups.I seldom raise a litter any more often than every couple of years and then it's ALWAYS because I want one or two of them for myself.I've never raised a litter and sold them all as pups.
In MY opinion when I make a cross it's because I honestly believe in the abilities of the two hounds and their pedigrees show many of the top performing hounds in the beagle breed with F.C.'s,I.F.C.'s,World Hunt winners,Large Pack Nationals winners,etc. and the knowledge that these hounds can also get it done in the woods in front of the gun. And I will gladly show the sire and dam in the field so that the prospective buyer can judge for themselves if this is the type of hound he wants a pup out of.When the pups are ready to go they have been wormed routinely,have had at least 2 combination shots,have been handled and socialized so are not shy acting and all registration papers are in order.
Now come the folks who say they are interested and the first thing they do is try and low ball you on the price,"I'll give you this much.I know where I can get one cheaper.I'll give you that much for a pair.Come on, what'll ya take?" Or they want to trade you something.etc.My advice to prospective pup buyers is that if the person has what you are looking for as far as the breeding,the performance of the parents and other immediate ancestors and/or previous crosses.The pups are healthy and act right and you TRUST the seller then pay what he is asking because the pup is worth it!If you don't think so then why are you dealing with them in the first place?
Occasionally I will sell a grown running dog and the first thing the buyer will invariably ask is "what's wrong with him"?That's a difficult question to answear honestly.First off if the hound had major faults that most any houndsmen would find intolerable then I wouldn't have him for sale,you wouldn't have seen him,he wouldn't be here,he'd be..............
There is no perfect hound so when I hear someone say "well,what's wrong with him ? Rather than why are you selling him?I have to think about that a minute.I'll sell one that won't shut-up in the kennel but have friends whose hounds bark constantly and they don't seem to mind a bit.I sold one that was small as I keep big fast bitches and this pup was too small and not enough foot to match well in my pack.I sold one that was a sure enough hunting dog but I couldn't stand listening to her squeely/ yippy mouth.Guy that bought her didn't care.The last 3 grown running dogs I sold were all males and that was the reason I sold them as I'm just not partial to a male .They came out of a cross I had very much wanted to make and the whole litter was males.I sold a VERY nice female that I regreted selling because a man offered me a lot of money for her.SOMETIMES when a person has a hound for sale it doesn't mean there is "something wrong with it".When selling a hound I try to be informative as to it's strengths and weaknesses and by doing that the buyer has a more informed idea of what he's getting and chances are you will have a satisfied buyer rather than someone that will be pissed off and bad mouthing you for the rest of time.BUT, there is no substitute for seeing the hound you are interested in go in the field on wild game and in several different scenarios.I'd want to see them run solo and packed up.I'd want to see them where there is off game around and how they handled that.And prefeably I'd like to see them more than one time.There is a saying in Latin--caveat emptor=let the buyer beware.
If you are offering a good hound then let him do the bragging as you won't have to.I hate bragging on a hound because on any given day they can all make a liar out of you.

[old blood beagles]

I dont know how many of you read my post about Buster, but this was and still is a hound that I am proud of. A man called me during the superbowl and started talking about Buster (I did not know who he was) and finally he told me that he had heard about him from a guy that I never hunted with but new. He asked me to tell him about him his good, his great and also his bad and I did. He then asked me to price him and without really thinking about it (as it was the superbowl) I put a price on him. The guy came over a couple of days later and took him on a trial basis. I told him to take as long as he wanted to make sure he was what he was looking for. I just got a phone call from this man today and he said "I am sorry for taking so long but Buster is just like to described him the way he works close in the check, his line control, his mouth, his gears, his brains and so on." And then he went on to say thank you for telling me everything and I am very pleased with Buster and I will be keeping him. I also gave my word to Roy "Newt on this board" that he could breed to Buster and I told him this before I sold Buster so as part of the deal with the new owner I told him that Roy was wanting to breed to him and when he got ready that the deal was already worked out and the new owner was fine with that.

The reason I am telling this story is because we as houndsmen should always stand by our words and if you lie about a hound then it will and should come back to haunt you. I now have a man that is happy with his hound and will take good care of him and that makes me happy. The price was fair for me and him and all of this happened because a man heard about my hound and started talking about him.

[allniter]

look at it this way ---some guys like heavey set ladys---some like real skinny ladys ---same as beagle some slow --fast ---they both are wright ----neither wrong --