Speed

[mybeagles]

The midwest is a clique. If your in the clique and get a decent dog that runs the front, regardless of how; it will finish. Especially if your a recognizable name in the association. The focus is on speed. If your dog does not run the front it will not win and will struggle to place. Even when the running is BAD and a constant break down the fastest dogs win.

I have to agree with Ron.....to much focus on speed, and not enough on control. Guys that run medium fast dogs with line control stay home because they dont stand a chance of winning. IMO 1/100 fast dogs have enough control to be a rabbit dog, mix that dog up with the other 99 dogs very long and it becomes a statistic. Thats why you have to solo solo solo solo solo a good dog, because of the wild fast dogs that trial.

I have watched the results pretty close the past 2 years......One dog won 11 trials last year. What does that say about the competition? How many classes over 20 entries? Many under 10. Im not even reading that too many guys are impressed with this dog, yet it dominated the association with wins and pts. I read the "Best hound ever" thread that was 4 pages long and didnt see the dog mentioned? I was expecting to read amazing stories? What that tells me is that 1 guy was committed to getting a dog in great shape and attend the trials and be committed, not that the competition was incredible.

Im not against the 2 trials each club can have each year, but lets be honest, its destroyed the competition. Winning a class of 7 dogs is nice, and helps finish the dog, but winning a class of 40 is a completely different thing.....its called competition.

Mybeagles

[ChadCaslte]

The midwest is a clique. If your in the clique and get a decent dog that runs the front, regardless of how; it will finish. Especially if your a recognizable name in the association. The focus is on speed. If your dog does not run the front it will not win and will struggle to place. Even when the running is BAD and a constant break down the fastest dogs win.

I have to agree with Ron.....to much focus on speed, and not enough on control. Guys that run medium fast dogs with line control stay home because they dont stand a chance of winning. IMO 1/100 fast dogs have enough control to be a rabbit dog, mix that dog up with the other 99 dogs very long and it becomes a statistic. Thats why you have to solo solo solo solo solo a good dog, because of the wild fast dogs that trial.

I have watched the results pretty close the past 2 years......One dog won 11 trials last year. What does that say about the competition? How many classes over 20 entries? Many under 10. Im not even reading that too many guys are impressed with this dog, yet it dominated the association with wins and pts. I read the "Best hound ever" thread that was 4 pages long and didnt see the dog mentioned? I was expecting to read amazing stories? What that tells me is that 1 guy was committed to getting a dog in great shape and attend the trials and be committed, not that the competition was incredible.

Im not against the 2 trials each club can have each year, but lets be honest, its destroyed the competition. Winning a class of 7 dogs is nice, and helps finish the dog, but winning a class of 40 is a completely different thing.....its called competition.

This is ridiculios! Lets see where to start: My buddy just started trialing a dog in the spring of 2009. He didn't know anyone and had never even ran in a midwest trial. Now, in spring of 2010 the dog has 2 wins and several places so yeah, guess you have to be in a clique . Oh by the way his dog is not a big front running dog. He is fast but, he's not gonna run the front a whole bunch. He's got his wins by being the RABBIT DOG he is, great check work, great control, and rabbit smart. If you think that midwest is only worried about speed you need to stick around long enough to watch a winners pack instead of going home when you get picked up! Like it's been said many times before, yeah, their might be a little buddy judging but I don't see it in the midwest near as often as I have in other formats. It's one thing to give your opinion but its another thing to run the midwest down or the dogs that have done well in it.

[jleerockit]

The midwest is a clique. If your in the clique and get a decent dog that runs the front, regardless of how; it will finish. Especially if your a recognizable name in the association. The focus is on speed. If your dog does not run the front it will not win and will struggle to place. Even when the running is BAD and a constant break down the fastest dogs win.

I have to agree with Ron.....to much focus on speed, and not enough on control. Guys that run medium fast dogs with line control stay home because they dont stand a chance of winning. IMO 1/100 fast dogs have enough control to be a rabbit dog, mix that dog up with the other 99 dogs very long and it becomes a statistic. Thats why you have to solo solo solo solo solo a good dog, because of the wild fast dogs that trial.

I have watched the results pretty close the past 2 years......One dog won 11 trials last year. What does that say about the competition? How many classes over 20 entries? Many under 10. Im not even reading that too many guys are impressed with this dog, yet it dominated the association with wins and pts. I read the "Best hound ever" thread that was 4 pages long and didnt see the dog mentioned? I was expecting to read amazing stories? What that tells me is that 1 guy was committed to getting a dog in great shape and attend the trials and be committed, not that the competition was incredible.

Im not against the 2 trials each club can have each year, but lets be honest, its destroyed the competition. Winning a class of 7 dogs is nice, and helps finish the dog, but winning a class of 40 is a completely different thing.....its called competition.

Mybeagles

Sounds like to me that you need to quit reading these posts and results and go watch a few midwest trials!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bobby Vest]

I don't really believe you have to be in the click in the AKC to place high or win. I have been an ARHA guy mostly for years. I have placed 2nd at an AKC trial last fall, my dog wasn't a frontrunner, I am not a club member and I haven't ran an AKC trial in probably a year. I don't run dogs with a bunch of the AKC guys and sure don't do any politicking to place a dog. A few of my dogs are too loose to run AKC and I try not to enter them. In all the AKC trials I have been in I have consistently placed dogs. I am getting older and can't judge a dog the way they deserve to be judged because I just can't stay on top of them, so they don't have anything to fear there. I'm sure there are judges in the AKC that shouldn't be but what organization doesn't have some like that. I like the AKC and the ARHA and i am glad we have both available.

[Ohiohntr]

"AKC is not perfect, but it is the best, and the most objective for overall hound. AKC is judging the complete hound performance, not just Jump, check, line."....quoted from one of mybeagles posts on Dec 21, 2009

here is another quote from mybeagles on Dec 22nd.....
"In a 1 hour hunt a dog backtracks, gets warned, then goes on to win the cast.....thats great....I wondered how that just happened to me. In AKC the judge does not have to let a dog with obvious fault win a trial and Ive never seen it happen. In AHRA/UKC Ive seen in happen 3 times in 8-10 trials because lets face it, 1 hour is a warm up. Everyone goes to different running locations and if you go with Elmer Fudd who takes you to a cow pasture with NO rabbits, no matter how well your dog performs, its not going to score enough points to advance. So you loose without ever facing the competition.

Ohlinger, I think when you get into AKC trials you will be sold. The only ones I have seen leave AKC for the other formats is guys that have dogs that excell in one area, but have too many faults to make it in AKC. Just because a guy can "live with a fault" doesnt mean its not a fault and the dog shouldnt be picked up for it.

Good luck to you on getting your judging license, will see you at the trials. Im rebuilding my kennel after being deployed overseas for four years now, but I will be going through some 13" gyps and will have some competition for you soon........ "

If you go through your post history it is full of quotes like this....some, longer, even go on to say further how much you like AKC, the dogs that run AKC, and the judging....very confusing

[mybeagles]

You cant have it both ways.......

Its either a clique or there is no competition........Same dogs winning all the trials. Yes, there are a few dogs that win and place, but the results don't lie. Its same dogs winning trial after trial. Go through and read the results for the midwest for the year 2009. Same 5 or 6 dogs all year......with a few toss ins.

I choose to believe it has more to do with NO competition than a clique. Clique is more of a reference to 5-10 years ago, now its more of No competition. You dont need a clique when there is no competition. I realized when I posted that this would be a "roll call" for the clique. Remember, when your in the clique, you cant imagine that there is a clique?

I have been to 50+ midwest trials, mainly as a judge/marshall. I prefer a more conservative hound. Thats not a gripe, just a preference. Attending more trials is not going to greatly sway my opinion. I almost always stay around to see the winners pack run because most of the trials are 6-8 hour drive. The results of the winners pack depends "GREATLY" on the running conditions. Most of the trials are run in spring and fall when conditions are optimum. When you run in July with 90 deg temps or winter, snow and Ice. Watch those winners packs. One of two things happen.....either you have a totally different winners pack or you have the usual winners that can't run a rabbit. Ive seen both, depending on the judges. Either way, many go home mad.

The Midwest could be by far the best association because of the format, but Im reluctant to say that it actually is.

Mybeagles

[ChadCaslte]

[jleerockit]

It's either a clique or there is no competition........Same dogs winning all the trials. Yes, there are a few dogs that win and place, but the results don't lie. Its same dogs winning trial after trial. Go through and read the results for the midwest for the year 2009. Same 5 or 6 dogs all year......with a few toss ins.

I choose to believe it has more to do with NO competition than a clique. Clique is more of a reference to 5-10 years ago, now its more of No competition. You dont need a clique when there is no competition. I realized when I posted that this would be a "roll call" for the clique. Remember, when your in the clique, you cant imagine that there is a clique?

Mybeagles

HILARIOUS

[mybeagles]

The whole thing is pretty funny! I get a good laugh just about every time......

Mybeagles

[weaver240000]

I run LP and feel the judging for the most part is awsome. I havent wont anything special. but been judged right 95% and Ill take them percentages. Any kind of dog can win in little pack. if scenting is bad an inside out dog will do well. when the running is heads high better have some gears or your get lapped. I have attended some SPO trails and it was hot and nasty out my dog was the only one that could smell the rabbit to run it. We seen 5 different lines. got picked up for running to much rabbit. What a dumb saying IMO. but after picked up the pack never ran another rabbit. And that ended my SPO trialing. At least LP is cut dry jump strike check. instead of banking on one persons opinion.

[Ron Conroe]

dave
you notice there is only two or three guys on this post from the mid-west so what does that tell you. i had a few guys tell me that the northrern hare clubs run a smoother dog than the mid-west does, so whats that tell you. like i said before not running down the mid-west just think they are getting carried away with the speed thing.JMO

[mybeagles]

Ron,

I dont hate the Midwest. Met some real nice guys......I think with the 2 trials a year and a couple bad apples it has lost its appeal. The days of 75 hounds in a class are over. Entries of 7 or 8 dont excite me. I have two boys that cant wait to start hunting so I have to have dogs that can circle a rabbit over and over again. Speed is fun, but it's swung too far in that direction.

Those Cash pups will likely be faster than I like, but if I dont put much pressure on them we should be shooting rabbits over them this fall.

Ill be in Kentucky first week of May. Should be there for 3 years if I dont deploy.


Mybeagles

[WELLS WOODS]

You guys can say what you want about the Mid-West but, I know the truth because I've been there judging, running & wathching since 1993. It is not all about speed or a clique; it's about how well & accuratly your dog can run a rabbit. Yes, you have to be fast, but without control , you might as well get your leadstrap ready because you won't be down too long. That's just the way it is & the competition is as strong as it ever was. If anything ,it is harder to finish a dog now because you don't get all of your points with 3 wins anymore; it takes 4 or 5 at least unless you have a ton of places also. The same dog won over again because of honest judges & she was a heck of a rabbit dog; not the fastest, but pretty fast. She won because of her DESIRE. She has a ton of HUNT & stays glued on the track & just flat out runs more rabbit than the other dogs. She did not always dominate her packmates. I was there twice and watched 'till the end. It was back and forth between dogs & no one was sure who won until they called the winners. Ron, your Tyke dog was a good example of what it takes to win in the Mid-West. He was fast, but stayed under control & just out checked the other dogs and was nearly fault free from I what I could see. Speed is good if the dog is under control, but it sure is ugly without control. I just have not seen judges looking for speed over control at the Mid-West trials that I've been to. Dogs that win today run just like Tyke did when I judged him for a win. If you think he was a piece of junk, then we just have a difference of opinion about dogs.

[Bunnyblaster]

This female you're talking about........what's her name and who owns her??? Just wondering because I didn't see these guys single out any one particular dog. Near as I could tell they were talking in generalities as a whole and not picking on any one dog.

Up to this point it has been a clean and opinion based topic..........start singling people and/or dogs out and it's gonna get ugly quick.

[WELLS WOODS]

Mybeagles mentioned her in his first post. I only know of one dog that won 11 trials last year.