competiveness in a dog?

[Big Dog]

Now Troy, I didn't say anything about mediocre, Im talking about dogs that can do it right, run the line and with foot speed too, and not constantly breaking down. I have seen some dogs in the midwest and in arha that could really hold onto it. A dog that is a gambler may look good on a big running rabbit and get torn to pieces on a twisting turning rabbit. As far as the line running dogs go, they would turn the rabbit behind the overrunning dog, the problem is so many people are going to the wild and loose dog that all 5 of them in the pack are the same way. I was at the world hunt about 5 years ago, and there was a high powered cast of grands with a bunch of big named hard hitting dogs in it. It was probably the worst running I have ever seen at the world, every dog wanted to be on the front, I will bet in an hour they jumped 5 rabbits and never had a chase that lasted over 5 minutes because nothing had gears. I have seensome line running dogs with plenty of foot, Fear the Digger, Buzz Saw, Logan Elm Blue Rocky, Brankos Sling Shot, Drews Blue Storm, A little bitch the mcguires owned name lilly or tilly, Howards Bandit, Well's Big Bomber just to name a few, these dogs didn't have to have the front all the time, but when they got it they could hold onto it, and if you were in the front and you missed it they made you pay, every one of these dogs was a rabbit dawg, not just a trial specialist that had to have the front at all cost.

Big Dog

[cpuckett]

i dont think it is that big of deal to have some dogs bangin heads,you get that sometimes with certain dogs as long as they are still got there mind on the rabbit,but i have seen some not even worry about the rabbit anymore and only worry about the lead dog,they will cut out of a race while dogs are still runnin because they cant get the front and shortcut dogs by gettin in front of them at about 50-60 more yards and then the other dogs have to try to catch up when they were doing it how its spose to be done,thats when i think it is a problem,is when they cant handle the pressure,but i like fast dogs that know how to slot in and run like they are supposed to.just my opinion

[Bunnyblaster]

Why is it that every dog that doesn't fight for the front is labeled as just a "mediocre pack dog"? You know what I LOVE to see??? A dog that controls the pack from the middle. I like to see nothing more than that awesomely mediocre pack dog make the turn while that flashy front runner is left hung out to dry cause he can't keep his nose on the ground. Speedy, overly-competitive dogs are a dime a dozen..........just like a following me too-er that gets pulled over the end cause they're running the dogs in front of them instead of running the rabbit. Flashy is flashy and I'm not saying all flashy dogs are worthless but I've seen more dogs screw up a race quicker by fighting for the front instead of worrying about where the rabbit went. And NO any dog in the middle that follows along behind the front dog that ran over the end of the line is no better either but I'd be willing to bet you pull that "front runner" out of the pack and you'll have less checks. You guys are right it's all in what you like and I love to see desire in a dog but not at the cost of doing the job inefficiently. JMO too

[weaver240000]

I like my dogs like my women. ROUGH, LOOSE, and a LITTLE CRAZY. If my dog breaks down 10 times and recovers it before that slow dogs makes the turn. Im tickled to death

[Bunnyblaster]

I like my dogs like my women. ROUGH, LOOSE, and a LITTLE CRAZY. If my dog breaks down 10 times and recovers it before that slow dogs makes the turn. Im tickled to death

ROFLMAO .............now that's funny stuff!!

[dave g]

weaver, that is the best.

now what do you think about a good pack. i know every dog should be able to run solo and do a good job but if we all got together and put our favorite style dog in a pack it would a beautiful day or would it be a strung out mess? the overly competitive fast dog would take the front and make the rabbit line out, the faster dog with control will keep it pushing on the hook, the border line competitive dog will be next to the faster control dog contributing to the push, then the true medium speed will keep the two faster dogs going and keep sucking back the overly competitive fast dog, then after the bunny puts the heat on and gets some distance and starts to zig and zag the track dog will be coming through and doing the dirty work preventing the break down. it sounds like a perfect pack when typed out and beagles are pack dogs. how would you field trial that out and see who had the best pack though?

i think this has been a great discussion so far and i am glad to have the replies from different points of views on style of dogs.

later, dave

[Tsa la gi]

Dave ,Sit back in the chair, kick ur feet up,relax n let Hondo do his thing. He is 1 hell uv a dog.

[Big Dog]

Good post bunny buster.

[Buckeye Bob]

Can't stay out of this. I could not have said it better than Big Dog. Too each his own but "flashy" to me is ability to run the front AND turn the rabbit from the middle.

[bwe007]

if you are going to eat at my house you better want the front and not settle for anything else!!!! you talk all this crap about a dog that can run full out and turn with the rabbit? that is a bunch of b...s...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no dog that is running full out can turn on a dime. if they are running that hard they are going to overun. so what. they are persuing that rabbit with the intension of catching it, not following its track of where it was. if you haven't seen a pack of front runners go then i feel bad for you, because you have never experienced that pure raw desire that is in a honud to catch that rabbit and eat it. so i say for the nay sayers let them go 100 miles an hour wide open and see what qa true pack of hungry beagles will do on a little ol' rabbit!!!!!! JMO

[hounddog]

Why does everyone put down a dog that causes checks? Who says a race has to be check free in order for it to be a good race. I run Little pack, therefore, I'll take all the checks I can get in a hours time. 25 points a check adds up quick. JMO
I guess it boils down the style of hound you like!

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[Buckeye Bob]

You got it Jim, I have bought or traded dogs that were considered flawed or mediocre by someone else that I really liked and sold or gave away my flawed dogs to others who really liked them. And by the way I HAVE seen a hound running full out behind and in the middle of the pack and turn a rabbit without missing a beat You can't help but grin or laugh out loud when it happens.

[Bunnyblaster]

no dog that is running full out can turn on a dime. if they are running that hard they are going to overun.

No they can't turn on a dime but they better be smart enough to come back to the point of loss, not roll the dice and swing way out to the left only to find out the rabbit took a right. And the more I thought about it I guess I don't really care as long as they don't lose the rabbit. Around here I have seen guys put down 2 competitive dogs that run over the end carrying on and trying to swing and grab the line just so they can stay in the lead. On those down right nasty days with 3 or more inches of fresh powder on the ground it doesn't take a whole lot of mistakes to screw up a track. I enjoy shooting bunnies behind all kinds of dogs but for me the more conservative dog fits my style.........probably since I'm a little more conservative myself.

You can't lump all the competitive dogs into one big group and you can't do the same with a less competitive dog either. But the one thing that I think most guys would agree with is while having a very competitive dog in the pack can be good I want to be able to take any and/or all of my dogs on any given day. Not find out my buddy is bringing his head banger so I need to leave mine in the box or there gonna spend the whole day racing each other for the front.

One more time though cause you guys are right.......it's all in what you like. That's why I say as long as they stay on the rabbit I guess I don't really care.

Good thread.

[Big Dog]

Aaah, Now we are getting somewhere. The difference between what Jim(houndog) considers a good race and what I consider a good race are night and day, and this is exactly why you cannot buy a dog based on the owners opinion of the dog without seeing it run. Jim says he wants as many checks as possible(as long as they can get it going again) because he is looking for a dog that will do well in the trials. I say that I want a dog that can keep it going and that willl snap back to the point of loss and not give you a :15 second check. We obviously have completely different opinions on what a good dog is, so if you are looking for the style of dog that I like, and you go to Jim and buy a dog sight unseen, you may think that you totally got screwed or vice versa, this is why so many people get disappointed when they buy dogs, because there are opinions of a good dog that are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Now I will have to admit, that when I think of this logically, for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would think that it was no big deal for a dog to continuously cause checks, but that is why we all get to choose and feed what we like. Good Thread

Big Dog

[Earl Rice]

Most dogs that get too competitive will cause more trouble than they can fix. If you notice I said most dogs, not all. Most hounds that run to catch can't stop on a dime and turn with the rabbit, and most judges or rabbit hunters don't expect them to! If a hound over runs the line it needs to have enough brains to know the rabbit track is behind and then turn and try to find it. I've placed and put wins on hounds that could run front, over run it some, but then come back and find the check before the other dogs had the chance. That hound in my eyes was causing several checks but still ran more rabbit than the other hounds because he was coming back and finding what he over ran. Problem is when the hound is over running the track more that it is turning it, or the hounds pack mates is having to find the check (Fix the problem the fast hound caused) because he don't have enough brains to turn back and find the check. Those are the types of hounds that in my eyes are TOO COMPETITIVE!!!!!! Acomplishment over style until the hound gets so faulty that it is hurting the pack more than it is helping.

As for my likes in a hound, I want a hound that can run as fast as possible and still turn the rabbit. Most hounds that run steady for an hour without many checks will put more pressure on a rabbit than a hound that runs hard/fast for 5-8 minutes and then is broke down searching for the check for 2-5 minutes. JMO.

I'll end with this. In most cases, (SPEED KILLS) and I don't mean the rabbit. Hunt what you like, feed what you hunt. BUT AT LEAST HUNT!!!!!

Earl Rice