Field Champion Titles watered down abit?

[BuschBound]

Guys and Gals what are your opinions?

I don't know what it's like in other parts of the country but around here there are 11 trials I could attend in our Assoiciation alone. With each club having 2 trials a year thats 22 trials.) I don't attend all but I'll hit a good 8-12 normally.

There are those that hit almost every trial, even some outside our Asso. and I too will do this at times. No one is running Field Champions after they finish in that year. So we make it more open for a possible less worthy of a hound to finish for a title that maybe they would not have got...

Are we doing anything for the breed by keeping our Field Champions at home??
You know a few years back when everyone had 1 trial a year I could see this but now what does everyone think? I think there were like 15-20 dogs that ran on our circuit that went on to finish for Field Champion titles this year alone. How many Field Champions are or have been sitting on the shelve collecting dust when everyone has forgotten about them?

Each year, I hear that the running in this class is weak this year and it was stronger last year or the big males are rougher than normal and so on...
Well when everyone just brings in young dogs that are the same caliber of hounds from past years that couldn't win or make the winners pack now is our standards slowly going down hill.

I read on on previous post about Field Champions VS. Gun dogs or something like this and kind of thought about this. A beagler puts all his time and effort into the sport to reach a high goal of a Field Champion why shouldn't we have to beat other Field Champions. You've been there many times 2nd behind a dog that has a title in front of his name. Who cares.. You're dog didn't deserve to win.. nor does he deserve a title. If you want the title call him your bunny huntin champion!

Anyone have any figure on with the new 2 trial system, has the number of Field Champions increased in your area or stayed the same. I know having two trials a year has helped beaglers stay a little closer to home and it has also lowered our entries abit as well, this also makes it a bit easier to finish a dog.

What should we be doing to raise our standards or is there anything else in the good of the sport that should be done? All opinions are welcomed.

[chapkosbeagles]

dave it is time to run in the other formats to finish akc,ukc,arha than you will have a triple champion

[mybeagles]

Dave,

I really like the idea of FC's running in trials. As a judge, I really think it would improve the quality of the trial. A quality finished hound would expose the 12-18 month old dogs for what they are........inexperienced hounds that need more field time.

The emphasis seems to be on finishing a hound by age 2 or 3 when most are just coming into their prime. I understand the thinking of trying to finish out a stud young so he can get some breedings under the belt and demonstrate himself to be a producer but I think its at the expense of having higher quality field trials. If the FC's actually competed till they were 6-7 years old, guys could see the potential stud dog run. The ones that performed well after they finished and continued to win and place would increase in value. The ones that "blew up" and could never win or place again would get bypassed as a stud dog which would be a good thing.

The other drawback is the expense. Some guys have several FC's which would add more $$$$ to every trial that is already a strain on most family budgets. I would like to see FC's entry fees waved or perhaps a $2 judging fee rather than the $20 or $25 for normal entry fee. Entries would go up so the winning and placing hounds would get a nice chunk of pts.

I have heard a few LP guys claim a steady diet of LP trials will ruin a dog. If thats the case, should we look at whats being promoted. I vote for slowing them down a touch. How many dogs do you think can actually handle the speed they are running at in competition?? Made worse by so many young inexperienced hounds running together........

I cast my vote for bringing out the Field Champions. I know some of you would like to show off your prized possession but are afraid of what others wil say to you If you could get a handfull of guys to start running their FC's it might take the pressure off the rest to bring theirs along. Get back to the 60 dog classes where when your win, you really won something. ie....beat out 15-20 field champions.

Mybeagles

[rabbitearl]

What I have seen the ones that going to trials ever weekend around here are guys that got a good job or got plenty of money too.I m a poor old produce farmer,I ve got to work so I can take off in the winter to hunt.I been ask alot of time to ride with them and they said they would pay for everthing, but I ve got to get ready for next year.I ve got a wife that teach school and she don t make enuff.I think guys that can go to ever trial are luckey that they can.To make a FC you have to have money too.Alot of guys like me just don t have it.I ve got two good friends that go everweekend,both can get off on friday,and sat,and both make around 200,thousand a years.To me people thats got money has got time to make a FC.I may be wrong but there the ones that I see having alot of FC.So thoes of you that can go everyweekend make sure your at church on sunday thanking god.I know theres are some that want agree with me.Sorry but this is what I see.

[jim matuszewski]

Dave, I love the advice that mybeagles gave on waving the entry on feild champions that way you can afford to bring your young prospects and put them in with stiffer compitition,Another thing that I would do if I were you is next nmha trial your at voice your opinion on this matter I'm sure your not the only one thats thinking this.Bring up the free entry of feild champions, might not finish as many dogs a year to champions but at least when you do it you won't be wondering if it's wattered down champ.

[NorWester1]

Never seen a trial, never been to one and don't plan to enter any in the near future.......but..... if I did and I was fortunate enough to own a dog that was a champion I would continue to enter that dog until he fell over dead or either he or I no longer enjoyed entering trials.
Even if for no other reason than we we having fun doing it.

[Casey Harner]

We all know of the horse race called the Breeders Cup. It would be nice to have a FC Cup in any format. Dogs that have a FC status, will be able to participate, or if you want throw an FC into a younger dog pack and see what happens. I think it would also be cool to have a top reproducer trial, where some of the best reproducers that are still able to run and keep up, to run in a pack... I don't know much, but thought of this when I watched the pre-show to the Breeders Cup. Just my .2 cents.

[Jeremy Mapes]

We all know of the horse race called the Breeders Cup. It would be nice to have a FC Cup in any format. Dogs that have a FC status, will be able to participate, or if you want throw an FC into a younger dog pack and see what happens. I think it would also be cool to have a top reproducer trial, where some of the best reproducers that are still able to run and keep up, to run in a pack... I don't know much, but thought of this when I watched the pre-show to the Breeders Cup. Just my .2 cents.

They have something like that called the Triple Challenge.

[mybeagles]

They also have the Champion of Champions trials for Better Beagling but they dont appear to get much participation.

I dont think the issue here is finding a format for champions to run in. We already have licensed trials. The issue is why dont champions run in the trials once they finish to keep the level of competition high and reduce the number of unworthy champions.

What are some of the ways we could make this happen? Here are a few I thought of....

1. Allow for $2 entry
2. Similar to the AHRA create a Grand Field Champion for a dog that wins 10 trials and 500 pts.
3. AKC provide an award for the dog with the most points in each class (similar to the Better Beagling high hound)each year.


Mybeagles

[MasonsBeagles]

is there more dogs competing in AKC trials now? I know there are in NKC.

one thing alot of folks with FC stop is that those dogs start getting bred. studding takes its toll on a hound. was told by a repected houndsman that "you are either running them, or you are breeding them, but dont do both". I dont have first hand knowledge on it but do know that East Coast Trimmer died young. Was told they were breeding Trimmer before and after trials and that he threw his back out. If they had laid off of the breedings while running he might have lived longer.

[Alabama John]

Hey Mason
That's my excuse for stopping jogging!!!

[MasonsBeagles]

lol

[foxxy]

We all know of the horse race called the Breeders Cup. It would be nice to have a FC Cup in any format. Dogs that have a FC status, will be able to participate, or if you want throw an FC into a younger dog pack and see what happens. I think it would also be cool to have a top reproducer trial, where some of the best reproducers that are still able to run and keep up, to run in a pack... I don't know much, but thought of this when I watched the pre-show to the Breeders Cup. Just my .2 cents.

ukc performance pack does in a way its called the world
you run reg. with champion dogs and champs with grands ,grands with champs

[johns03272008]

this is jmho but i would love to see F.C.'s out there running against younger dogs and if anyone remembers Able's east coast trimmer was a 2x IFC and here is where you come into problems people start having their feelings hurt and complaining like when trimmer was running when there dog has 20 2nd's and cant finish because a dog (trimmer) is always beating them and i have talked to some people about this and they dont agree with me and think its unfair but i really dont care here is where i think it would help out the breed and the running of the dogs you will get less junk dogs that have a hope of going on to the 2nd round or winners pack also i really think that if a dog cant beat the f.c. in front of it why does it deserve a title of F.C. i think they should have to beat the F.C. to prove that it is a real winner that way we are breeding for a better dog not watering it down and just settling for a lesser dog that finaly got its shot cause the owner of the F.C. dog finally layed him or her up!!! i think would help all of the dogs out and as far as the entry goes i would say if the entry is $20 for a dog i would say make the entry $10 for the F.C.'s that way the club makes a little money and its still cheaper for the guys to enter a already F.C. also with F.C.'s running we can see who the total dominating dog really is and then pick a stud dog again this is JMHO and like i already know EACH IS THEIR OWN!!!!!!!!!!

[Ron Conroe]

great post johno and thats what they should do, but like you said the guy with the not so good dog would whine and cry, and then there are some judges out there that would pick them up just out of spite or they say we will give the other one the win that one's already a feild champion.