sbadger wrote:I give it ever other month I go by The site http://www.beaglesunlimited.com tells about what you need to know have been doing it for years 1 cc per 10 pounds of dog
I read this fellow's site, SBadger, and while the 1 ml per 10 lb of dog is the correct dose for pyrantel (@ 50 mg/ml), it is not the correct dosage for Safeguard. In reading Beagle's Unlimited site, he recommends the Safeguard over everything, which is bad information IMO, on top of which his dosages are outdated. I understand you are trying to be helpful. Unfortunately, however, the practice of "repeating information" is not always being helpful, it is sometimes being harmful. You clearly don't understand what you're reading, or perhaps I am not understanding that you were speaking of pyrantel. It seems you really are just trying to give a plug for Beagles Unlimited, which is fine, as the originator of that site has put alot of time and thought into that site, which shows his good intent. However, in the case of his recommendation of Safeguard, sometimes even the best intentions are themselves not accurate. So (again) publically posting misinformation ultimately is NOT good, it is harmful.
Worse, if you too were referring to Safeguard, you did not even read this gentleman's website correctly. If you claim this site advises to give fenbendazole at 1 cc per 10 lb of dog, in point of fact Beagles Unlimited says this: "This is much cheaper to buy on a yearly basis than any other deworming product. You can purchase this huge bottle for only $104.95 (accurate price as of 04/20/2008) from Lambert Vet Supply by simply clicking on the photo to the left of this paragraph ... The recommended dosage of this exact product and strength is 1 ml (which contains 100 mg active ingredient) per 5 lbs of Beagle bodyweight. For example, a 25 lb Beagle would receive 5 ml per day for a 3 day period (total 3-day treatment consists of 15 ml)."
Worse still, Beagles Unlimited is wrong in his dose, as fenbendazole is 1 ml per 4.4 lb, not 1 ml per 5 lb, and it is given twice daily for 3 days in a row, not just once daily. Therefore, in the end, not only did you misquote Beagles Unlimited's stated dosage yourself sir, but Beagles Unlimited is himself wrong on both counts: (1) meaning his own recommendations as to dosage are wrong, and (2) how instead of being "much cheaper" than any other product, fenbendazole is actually much more expensive than any other product, save Droncit.
First of all, here is the new and updated dosage for Panacur/Safeguard:
Dogs and Cats:
In dogs and cats, mebendazole, fenbendazole, febantel, and flubendazole are used for treatment of roundworms, hookworms, and tapeworms. However, treatment must be given BID for 3 days. Fenbendazole has been used in a divided dose regimen in bitches against tissue-dwelling larvae of Toxocara canis and Ancylostoma caninum ; daily administration of 50 mg/kg to bitches from day 40 of pregnancy through day 14 after parturition resulted in pups free of both parasites, although this has limited application in practice.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... 191507.htm
Do you know what "BID" means? It means twice a day. You see the trouble with "repeating information," without actually doing your own research, and actually understanding what you’re reading, is that in doing so you are not being helpful at all, you are essentially passing on incorrect information. Just because somebody is your friend, or just because you "know them" does not mean what they are saying is in fact correct. Further, what may have been a correct dosage last year might ultimately be discovered to be an underdosage this year, because RESISTANCE TO DRUGS is continually being built-up by organisms to the medicines and drugs we use to kill them. The quotations above (and below) are from the latest issue (2008) of The Merck Veterinary Manual:
"The development of nematode and trematode (worm) resistance to various groups of anthelmintics is a major problem ... The development of significant levels of resistance seems to require successive generations of helminths exposed to the same class of anthelmintic."
In other words, the ability of worms to develop resistance on any given yard is going to be at its greatest with a man who uses the same drugs every single time, which is a lazy and ignorant practice. This is why knowledgeable dogmen choose instead ROTATE their wormers, buying and using different wormers each month, so as NOT to use "the same wormer" every time and so as NOT to develop a pattern of resistance on their yards. You see, this is why The Merck Veterinary Manual (and other reliable books) comes out with a new edition every few years, precisely because dosages for so many drugs continuously change.
Therefore, in the end, not only was your own translation of what you read incorrectly-relayed, Mr. Badger, but the source you were quoting was likewise incorrect as to its dosage, for Mr. Beagles Unlimited was citing YESTERDAY’s dose (1 ml per 4.4 lb, 3 days in a row), and not the CURRENT dose (1 ml per 4.4 lb, twice daily, 3 days in a row).
Furthermore, it gets worse in the misinformation that was given. For the idea that Mr. Beagles Unlimited suggested that Safeguard (fenbendazole) was "much cheaper" than any other worming product reveals a basic problem with his understanding math. Because if this drug is $104.95 for 1000 ml, this means it is essentially $0.105 per ml (ten-point-five cents per ml) to administrate. Further still, if the current dosage is 1 ml per 4.4 lb, twice daily, for 3 days in a row, that means for (say) a 30 lb dog a person must give 6.8 (say 7) ml, twice daily, for 3 days in a row. According to my understanding of math, this comes out to a total of 42 ml of Safeguard needing to be given by the end of my twice-daily, 3-day-worming marathon I need to go through to properly administer this product, leaving me with a total cost of $4.41 per 30-lb dog.
Now then, compare this ridiculous cost-per-dog with using pyrantel pamoate. Rather than spend $104.95 for 1000 ml, if a person knows what he’s doing he can spend a mere $32 for 950 ml of pyrantel. So right away they’re only spending 1/3rd as much as with Safeguard. Moreover, rather than dumping out 7 ml of Safeguard per dog, twice daily, for 3 days in a row (for a total of 42 ml per-dog), the person who uses the pyrantel is only giving 1.5 ml ONCE for his dog. Since the cost of pyrantel is only about $0.33 per ml (just over 3 cents per ml), and since you only have to give 1.5 ml of this drug to a 30-lb dog, this means you’re only spending about 5 cents per-30-lb dog to treat with pyrantel, rather than $4.41 per dog with Safeguard (fenbendazole). And even if you treat again in 2 weeks with pyrantel, as is recommended, you still are only out a dime with pyrantel compared to nearly 5 bucks with Safeguard, PER DOG.
In other words, fenbendazole is nearly 10x as expensive to use as pyrantel.
I hope my point has been sufficiently illustrated.
These things are not matters of opinion, associations, or friendship; they are simply matters of current dosages and cost-of-product. It is simply best to use different kinds of wormers, on a rotational schedule, and to use products like fenbendazole only on an as-needed (i.e., for whipworm) basis, or at most twice a year, but to use less expensive and more powerful wormers on the more regular worming schedule.
Good luck,
