Which is harder to win in, ARHA, UKC, or AKC.

[Matt Wilson]

So then why do the marshalls and handlers bust the brush to try to get rabbits up. They may say it at the seminar but when a dozen guys are spread out walking through the brush how can they tell when a dog isnt hunting. Dont get me wrong I like all formats as I just like running dogs. I have ran AKC both UKC formats and hope to attend some ARHA hunts soon. Run what you like trial in the format you like and in the end just have fun.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

So then why do the marshalls and handlers bust the brush to try to get rabbits up. They may say it at the seminar but when a dozen guys are spread out walking through the brush how can they tell when a dog isnt hunting. Dont get me wrong I like all formats as I just like running dogs. I have ran AKC both UKC formats and hope to attend some ARHA hunts soon. Run what you like trial in the format you like and in the end just have fun.

I actually used to wonder that myself, it was explained this way too me. Its all about time and the winner pack so EVERYONE IS TRYING TO MAKE A RACE HAPPEN. I dont exactly agree but do understand. And if you run dogs much at all , you can tell who is hunting and who is not. The last few years have been very rewarding for me .I have finished one and seen a few finish. Pretty impresive hounds to say the least.I personally have not been to the ukc,heard too much bad. The midwest is not perfect but it is very consistant. I have been at this for years and the best bang for my buck is by far the MIDWEST.

[fulcount]

Spo on Hare is a really good way to evaluate the hounds no excuse such as gone to ground if they lose the hare the fault is in the hounds under the right judgement
[as in all trials] I believe this is the best way to prove a hounds worth
Under the wrong judges none are any good!!

[Chief Long Hair]

Vicky,

Thanks for the concern of my arm, at least it's not my "paper work'n" one when I go to the restroom. It looks like Chris and I will only be at Schumaker's farm and then our trial next. I'm not working with this arm problem so the money is a little short and we've got dogs that we don't want to hit hard till the beginning of 2010. We'll see both of you there at Schumaker's and I'd love to talk dogs with ya both.

Justin and the better half are with a baby bump. I've heard it's a Just'et, not a Just'in. They're expecting her right during our trial at Oakland City so I doubt he'll be there. I hope that doesn't stop you guys from coming. Both of you need to be there with your best dogs, we'll do all the work from there.


Joeyman, thanks. I thought he was dead. Maybe he was with that South Carolina Governor tapp'n it!!!!! OOOOOHHHHHHH!!!!!


Matt Wilson,

Most AKC judges I've had the pleasure to meet and run under really know what a dog should be.

1) One really sure sign is when the suspected dog is following behind the handlers and not looking on it's own. It's real obvious and the judges do look for it when searhing for a rabbit. If they see it they'll take note of it but probably won't order it up right away.

2) Another is when the suspected dog just stands around waiting for another handler or dog to start a rabbit. Again judges look for it and will take note if seen.

3) The hardest one of all requires the judges to keep up with the dogs to see the "no hunt". This happens more often than most people think and is the biggest reason for ordering a dog up for it. That's when a dog stands around during a check waiting for another dog to find it. When the check is solved by another dog, this "no hunt" dog chimes in and sometimes owns it making him look good. I've seen this a few times and I can't keep up with them!!!

Knowning that not all people do things the same way, I offer this info. When I gun hunt for the table, I'm kick'n the brush just as much as any other dog or human. I want a rabbit NOW!!!!! I don't care who gets it up. There's only one thing I require from a dog at this time. DON'T BE FOLLOW'N ME!!! And I'm not the only person here that feels that way.

But I also understand that there are some who are lazier than me, (I know it's hard to believe), and demands that their dogs do it all, in other words hunt hard because "I'm not about to". With that said, AKC SPO trials are operated pretty much the way I hunt any way so I have no problem with it. Besides, I've seen judges ordering dogs up for no hunting using the above three applications.

Also people that have known me for sometime also know how I'll put up with a "no hunt'n" dog, not very long. It sometimes amazes me how they seem to get lead piosoning of the brain at a high rate of speed soon there after. I know the difference and so do you. It's really not that hard to see when numbers 1) and 2) happens. A fair number of people don't realize number 3) occures though. I consider that one to be the worst of them all. That dog is lazy and letting the others find it for him. That's when he takes over. Bad fault in my mind.

Here's another thought. Could it be that AKC competing dogs are so good that "no hunt" has been bred out of them? HMMMMMMMMM!!! LOL

Da Chief

[Matt Wilson]

I understand what your saying cheif. I guess I am lazy because I just walk the paths I figure that if the dogs want to run a rabbit they can find there own and if they dont want to find there own they will be looking for a new home.

[wvduece]

i must be lazy too if i have to get in the briars to jump a rabbit i shure dont need the dogs if a dog dont hunt n jump here they dont eat here either

[Jeremy Mapes]

The dogs should have to jump their own rabbit. No need for a dog if you're gonna get in the brush and jump the rabbits for them.

[Run&Gun]

Why is it , if it is known, an AKC judge will not even look at an AHRA Champion? heard it from "many "ARHA Trialers

[ray s]

Why is it , if it is known, an AKC judge will not even look at an AHRA Champion? heard it from "many "ARHA Trialers

“No AKC judge may have a significant interest in a dog registry or dog event-giving organization deemed by the AKC Board to be in competition with the American Kennel Club. Significant interest would include, but not be limited to ownership of, employment by, a directorship in, and holding office in. Any AKC-approved judge, who shall judge a purebred dog event in the U.S. not in accordance with the rules of AKC, which apply to such purebred dog events without the express permission of the AKC, may be disciplined even to the extent of having his or her AKC judging approval revoked.”
this quote is from the American Kennel Club

it looks like akc is behind such a discrimination.

[Chief Long Hair]

Jeremy and wvduece, do you both realize that not every one hunts just like you. There are many who don't and they hunt just like me. I know one thing. We'll get more chances at a rabbit than you two ever would.

IMHO "jumping the rabbit" is just a very small part of the overall picture here. I've seen a few dogs who can jump one but gets it's butt kicked every where else. It's not that important except for getting a score or "getting a dog out of your way" in some formats and that's it. While hunting for food on the table, the ability to "jump" doesn't help that much. It's simple. Get a rabbit up by any means and get the dogs on it if they're not. Stand still for a while and guess what? If you've got decent dogs and you're a good shot, BOOM, you've got food for the table. Jump ability is over rated.

I do agree with dogs that just follow me, they don't last long here. Dogs with desire to find their own rabbit is a positive trait and dogs without a negative. I've even seen where a huge amount of desire to be a negative. Ever had a dog range out 400, 500, 600 yards, 1/2 mile, a mile out as soon as released off the lead? I don't know how you feel but that pisses me off to no end. They don't have to hunt hard for me but they have to be out of my site most of the time.

I'll say it again as far as participating in AKC hunts. I've seen a few dogs picked up for "NO HUNT" in an these trials. Most judges will keep an eye out for it, but will find a reason other than no hunt to order it up.

ray s, well said.

Run&Gun, I'm an AKC field trial secretary. Our last trial had one ARHA dog WIN the big female class, a UKC dog WIN the little female class, and way too many here to list that PLACED in all classes. Why don't you go more often to AKC trials, that if you have already, and get your own opinions and quit listening to others, "MANY ARHA TRIALERS", like God spoke to you before making accusations.

Da Chief

[mike crabtree]

Chief, I agree with most of what you have said, but to me Jumping a rabbit is the most important part. Here where I am from they are hard to find, and buried deep in black berry briars. You wont jump many yourself here.In Indiana you are very blessed with rabbits, so a Jump probably isnt that Important.

As for UKC goes on the Jump. A dog that barks 1st gets the most points in a strike situation. More often than not a dog besides the 1st to bark actually jumps the rabbit.

I have hunted all 3 formats talked about. Im batting higher in UKC than any of them. The competition isnt near as tough as ARHA, or AKC. I havent won any AKC Hunts I only entered 2, but could tell more of the dogs were there to win, not just be there.

[rabbitearl]

I agree Mike.Very Very imported around here.I love to see a good old bed jump dog than running one.Why Its easy to find something to run him.I know there some on here would say I m crazy.Well you might have rabbits all over the place when you turn out but not around here.Has there ever been a dog to finish out cause of jumping points?

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Why is it , if it is known, an AKC judge will not even look at an AHRA Champion? heard it from "many "ARHA Trialers

Arha Grch Hof-Akc Fc- Abshire levee road junie.Arha Rch-Akc IFC-Greenwells Ky Reggie. There is the first two that bounce in my mind. There are several more i am sure.Its all about dog power i believe.A good dog can and should compete about anywhere. In my honest evaluation.The midwest will give you a shot they could care less if its from lp or not, If it dont cut and slash bring it on. Midwest welcomes all that would like too come.Give em a shout. Plenty of trials everywhere.

[Chief Long Hair]

mike crabtree, ever wonder why you "batting higher in UKC"? I ran UKC for 5 years and I agree with you. I batted higher there as well. That in itself shows it's way too easy to win. During those 5 years I've had many champs and grands. In retrospect, I've been running AKC for 9 years and I only have one FC. You do the math.

Yes I live in Indiana but who said ALL of Indiana is covered in rabbits. The reclaimed coal mining areas far south are thick. Amish farms way up north are good in spots as well. And maybe a few farms in between the two where they have idle acreage for the government. We've got tough areas too, all the more reason to get in there yourself with your dogs. Here around Indianapolis there is little cover and a lot of crops, it's nothing but fertile flat land. The crops might be good for rabbits but when there gone, the rabbits are very vulnerable to feral cats, yotes and birds. I've also hunted before near your area and I saw little difference in the quantity of rabbits compared to here many times.

I'll say it again, the ability to jump is way over rated. Check work, line control, speed, control of speed, brains, all these rate higher in my book. If any one of those are missing you'll have a tough day hunting whether your dog can jump or not. Even correct use of mouth, endurance or stamina, willing to work as a pack, rates just as high if not higher than jump.

Maybe your just better off in your beloved UKC if you like titles on dogs, you'll get plenty there. By the way, if you attended 2 AKC trials near you, those were the slow dogs called UBGF. Try AKC Midwest or AKC Large Pack in Michigan if you want a challenge.

rabbitearl, to answer your question-----yes, in ARHA LP. I went to go to watch a dog that I was thinking about breeding to. All of them had more than enough hunt in them. Funny thing was once the rabbit was produced----whoops----lost it. The jump and strikes were all that they scored. By the way, I decided to not breed to that dog, he couldn't ran the rabbit.

[mike crabtree]

mike crabtree, ever wonder why you "batting higher in UKC"? I ran UKC for 5 years and I agree with you. I batted higher there as well. That in itself shows it's way too easy to win. During those 5 years I've had many champs and grands. In retrospect, I've been running AKC for 9 years and I only have one FC. You do the math.

Yes I live in Indiana but who said ALL of Indiana is covered in rabbits. The reclaimed coal mining areas far south are thick. Amish farms way up north are good in spots as well. And maybe a few farms in between the two where they have idle acreage for the government. We've got tough areas too, all the more reason to get in there yourself with your dogs. Here around Indianapolis there is little cover and a lot of crops, it's nothing but fertile flat land. The crops might be good for rabbits but when there gone, the rabbits are very vulnerable to feral cats, yotes and birds. I've also hunted before near your area and I saw little difference in the quantity of rabbits compared to here many times.

I'll say it again, the ability to jump is way over rated. Check work, line control, speed, control of speed, brains, all these rate higher in my book. If any one of those are missing you'll have a tough day hunting whether your dog can jump or not. Even correct use of mouth, endurance or stamina, willing to work as a pack, rates just as high if not higher than jump.

Maybe your just better off in your beloved UKC if you like titles on dogs, you'll get plenty there. By the way, if you attended 2 AKC trials near you, those were the slow dogs called UBGF. Try AKC Midwest or AKC Large Pack in Michigan if you want a challenge.

rabbitearl, to answer your question-----yes, in ARHA LP. I went to go to watch a dog that I was thinking about breeding to. All of them had more than enough hunt in them. Funny thing was once the rabbit was produced----whoops----lost it. The jump and strikes were all that they scored. By the way, I decided to not breed to that dog, he couldn't ran the rabbit.

You can be a smart azz if you want. UKC is not my beloved format. I have only ran 4 of those. The AKC Trials I went to were at Wurtland and up at Schumacher farms where I spoke with you.Were those dogs what you would consider slower type dogs?? As I remember yours didnt do so well that day. I do have the right to disagree with you, and I did so in a civil manner.