who promotes the best all around RABBIT DAWG?????

[geezer22]

A person going to run the format that suits him and his dogs so it no better than another.

[kentucky mobster 08]

akc needs to start picking dogs up for running off game including house cat.how can a dog end up in the winner pack that ran off game .

[bigdogpace]

THE BEST FORMAT ATRUE RABBIT DOG IS THIS NEVER KEEP AMALE U WOULDNT BREED TO OR FEMALE U WOULDNT BREED AND ANY DOG FAST SLOW WHAT EVER CANT CIRCLE ARABBIT BY THEM SELVES ATONE YR. OLD WITH AMPLE RUNNING SHOULD B CULLED. THAT WILL PRMOTE BEST RABBIT DOG N ANY FORMAT THATS THE RULES AT PICK UP PACE KENNELS.

[cutthroat beagler]

arha lp is very exciting,but i think they need to reinstate the babbling rule first off,and drop the 15 second rule down to 10 or 5,too many times i have seen a dog dominate a cast and get a ton of 5 and 10 second checks but loose to a dog that barked all over the place and kept the race tore up enough to grab the few 15 second checks and get the win,some people like that but to me,that is a piece of shyt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with your entire post, except for the last paragraph. 5-15 seconds doesn't make a dog a check dog in my opinion, but a dog that consistently pulls the 1-5 minute checks and can stay on the origional rabbit is where you'll see your true powerhouse check dogs shine. A dog that can average 1 jump strike per half hour, and hold the line for the better part of that hour with no losses is the dog that should win on that day. let's see, that would be 80pts. It would be sad to see a dog at the end of the hour pull 4 dinky 5-10 second checks (100pts) and win the hunt.

little checks shouldn't trump a solid line control race unless one dog pulls alot of them or they are pulling really long and difficult checks. And if you were to score a 5 second check as you suggest, then they shouldn't hold as much point value. Your ultimate pack should have only the ocasional loss of more than 15 seconds. The only loss should occur because the rabbit pulled some extremely sneaky stuff on the hounds. Not because a ruff hound that pulls the pack overshooting the line and giving mouth keeps causing the checks. I'd be okay with your suggestion of 5 and 10 second checks if they scored them differently. My idea would be if you scored 1pt per 1 second of loss, scoreable only in intervals of 5 seconds. For example: 5=5pts, 10=10pts, 15=15pts, 20=20pts, 25=25pts, to 30=30pts being the maximum allowed per shot. 5 second checks are not as valuable as half minute checks, but they are important.

Do you understand how hard it is to stay within 5 seconds of the check area as a judge on a day when they are flat rollin? Are we nuts with the 5 second checks? WOW! maybe I'd better change my idea check scoring day dream to start at 10 seconds.

[BNSKennels]

I'm going to go with a tie, Midwest/Large Pack and Progressive Pack. The reason I like the Akc formats is that they put their hounds on the ground for hours on end. It takes true heart and stamina to run past two hours let alone five. I also like PP because they have a tight line and I believe a good hound with good line will keep the doubling cottontail running all the time.

[Spruce Ridge Beagler]

I keep hearing all this talk about more than an hour in SPO, The hunt I attended had six or seven little female cast that averaged an hour. I know that is only one hunt and im'e not foolish enough to base everything on one hunt but is an hour per cast the norm or not ? Just to be clear I did enjoy the hunt.

[birmi1nr]

In AKC midwest and hour per cast is normal average until you get to the winners pack. Winners pack typically run 2-3 hours long. So if your dog is lucky enough to be one of the top 2-3 dogs remaining in the winners pack they will have spent 4-5 hours on the ground that day. I have seen quite a few hounds that dominated in the earlier casts only to fade in the final hours of the winners pack.

[SilverZuk]

I find this very intersting, I see all of the votes for arha Little Pack but I have not seen one person post why little pack promotes the best all around dog.

My thoughts too.
I have only run LP, and wish there was a PP club around close because I like the looks of the format better.
IMO ,there are not enough penalties in LP, it promotes over competitive fast dogs that push the rabbit too hard and over run too much.

I feel the best rabbit dog stays glued to the track, keeps it progressing so when the rabbit comes around it is loping along and the hunter gets a shot. That is what a "rabbit dog" is supposed to do - run the rabbit to the gun in all conditions.

I have hunted different style dogs, and the little pack dogs push more rabbits to a hole in the areas I hunt from too much pressure. The medium speed dogs I hunted with keep the rabbit moving, but don't have it running for its life. When your dog is catching rabbits - it is too fast for my tastes.

[JCM]

I have run mostly ARHA LP, but have run in many AKC trials.

To me, the biggest difference is style vs. accomplishment. AKC has a very specific style of hound that each association demands. It doesn't matter if you run brace, UBGF, or Midwest, each does a good job of selecting a certain style of dogs. When it comes to winning trials, your dog absolutely must fit into the type that the association runs. Accomplishment determines the winner, but it must be within the running style that each association demands.

In ARHA LP, the only requirement is accomplishment. It really doesn't matter if a dog is a medium speed, line running, track hound, a rough swinging, cheating hound, or a medium fast honest mouthed track hound. If you jump rabbits and get checks, you win. To me, this is the best thing about LP. Everyone that enters a dog can run whatever style they prefer, and if your dog is good enough, you will win.

I prefer ARHA LP because winning is strictly a matter of accomplishment. Fast or slow, doesn't matter. Rough running or close track-to-track, doesn't matter. Hunt close or hunt wide, doesn't matter. If my dog jumps rabbits and gets checks, then it wins.

[bradadkins]

JCM- agree with your post...

if it was up to me to tweek it..i think jump should be awarded more points.

I'm gona run some AKC this fall so we will see

[T LEE]

Great Post JCM

I have tried all but UKC and would like to try it also. I hear guys crying all the time about the front running dogs making a check (BULL). If the dogs running behind were worth a nickle they would have turned with the line and Not worried about what the Front dog did. When a check happens ....I don't care if it is the carefull dog or the Rough dog that gets the check first. Points are given to the dog that recovers the check the fastest (15 sec.) in Little Pack. As a gun hunter also..a dog that recovers the check the quickest is handy to have.

[indian creek beagles]

The breeder that breeds his dogs to compete with the rabbit or hare whichever may be the predominate quarry in a given area, promotes the best all around rabbit dog.
If dogs are bred to consistently bring game to the gun, and do it ALL DAY LONG, whether to be collected or not then I feel that they are fulfilling their purpose. I am afraid that when we as breeders attempt to breed dogs that we can take to a non hunting situation put him out for any where from an hour to four hours and the only thing that matters is whether or not the owner gets the win so that he can either receive an ego boost or brag that he has the best dog, as decided by someone else’s' criteria, then we begin to breed "show dawgs" in lieu of Rabbit Dawgs.
Having said that to me, the person that has dogs that perform up to their own expectations is the logical choice for the promoter of the best all around "Rabbit Dawg"
If that dog also happens to fall into one of the so called "Formats" then a dog could be judged accordingly, but that gives no one the right to criticize a dog or man that happens to fall into another "Format".
Run what YOU like unless you have someone feeding them then I would suggest that you run what they like.

[TOUCHSTONE]

Interesting read! I didn't vote because I am not familiar with all the formats listed. The formats that I would eliminate would tollerate the following from HUNTING beagles: running off game, standing at the handlers feet rather than working hard to search out and jump rabbits (I'm certainly not going to go around beating brush with sticks to jump rabbits for the dogs I feed), swinging so far out of the check area that the dog is likely to jump a different rabbit that will likely not return to the original jump area, mouthy ghost trailing dogs that waste my time not accounting for rabbits, dogs that make me wait too long to get a shot at the rabbit (too slow), dogs that continually cheat, run rough, or backtrack, dogs that have disqualifying faults according to the breed standard (over 15", overshot or undershot bite, monorchid or cryptorchid, extreme shyness, or a mean dog). Not sure which formats are left to choose from.
The formats that I would choose would require: Search and jump, accuracy on the line to be elligable to score points, Speed appropriate to running conditions to keep pressure on the rabbit, check work to keep the track going, demerits or minus points for faulty running such as cutting, slashing, backtracking, leaving the check area..., endurance to run all day, no physical or mental disqualifications.
With that said I know that both UKC programs fit the criteria I like when they are judged correctly with the exception of requiring endurance. I will except the responsability as a breeder to keep endurance in my hounds. They do make excellent gun dogs for putting rabbits in the game bag. UKC Performance pack is a newer program but stronger for the traits I prefer because it provides a better method for minusing dogs for the mistakes it makes. I'm not sure why it got so few votes. Maybe the users of this forum are not familiar with the program. Do any of the other formats fit the criteria I listed?

[bunnyslyr24]

I don't field trial. But I have traveled to several with a friend. I think I can be unbiased in saying that Midwest promotes the all around cleanest form of a true rabbit and gundog that I have seen.

[sicososbe]

LITTLEPACK ROCKS. To much mouth in AKC. Were the MEAT.