Culls

[2500 HD]

old blood , for me it was " anything sold for less than $750 is a cull " actually , to me anything sold is a cull ! ,

So your saying you own several culls because you paid for you dogs????????????????

Probally the first section you look at is the trading post!!!! Sounds like your the guy always looking for a deal

[crittergitter]

2500 HD , you know it bud , everything i own is prolly someones cull ! what i am getting at is if it is sold or give a way then it must be a cull , they didnt keep it ! i look at the trading post every time i get on this site , mostly because i like to look at different dogs , when i need a dog i dont have to deal with the dog traders on there , i know where to get them ! and as for looking for a deal , you bet i am , but what most on there call a deal i call a fair price ! like i said before , i own 3 dogs , i paid a grand total of $285 in all 3 , are they the best , nope , do i run alot of rabbits and have a blast doing it , yep , and i wouldnt be ashamed to run them with anything ! so as for looking for a deal ! i think i found 3 good deals , whats wrong , jealous ?

[Shady Grove Beagles]

The fair price for a hound is what one man wants to get and the other man is willing to pay.
Here in Tn. an A.K.C. registerd pup at 8 weeks old with reg. papers in order that has had two shots and been regularly wormed out of well bred parents will usually sell for $150.00.That same pup [according to my beagling buddies] in Vermont,New Hampshire,Maine,Massachusetts will sell for$250.00-$300.00.

Field trialers routinely will pay more for dogs then your everyday gun hunter as they know the bloodlines and the crosses that are producing a high percentage of winners on their trialing circuit.

Many times over the years I've had guys pull in the yard to look at a litter of nice slick,well bred A.K.C. reg. pups out of parents that can get the job done and do it right.After spending an hour or two of my time telling me about all the rabbits they kill and all the good dogs they've owned they ask "how much?" I tell them $150.00 and they'll answear"I'll give you $150.00 for a pair".Same type of story when they come looking for a running dog.They think they should be able to buy your broke/trash free,no faults,do it all day,every day hound for $250.00-$300.00.

Now I surely don't mean to insult or show disrespect to any man but,I've been at these hound dog sports for the last 40 years and have spent considerable time in the woods treeing bear with all of the six recognixed U.K.C. breeds,have spent winters running bobcat on snow,22 of those years keeping registered Bluetick coonhounds and competing them in nitehunts from Maine to Mississippi and selling thousands of dollars worth of fur that my hounds accounted for.I have a 200 acre fox pen right behind my property and a 125 acre fox pen across the street and quite frequently go and watch/listen to the fox hounds run with those guys.I have beagles that are decended from some of the top hounds and bloodlines the sport has known [as hunters and competition dogs].I've attended the A.K.C. Large Pack Nationals,the Southern Large Pack Championship,The National Beagle Club's Triple Challenge,the A.R.H.A. World Hunt,Jessamine County's Superbowl of Beagling,The International Beagle Hare Futurity,The Canadian-American [Can-Am ] Snow Challenge and The Trial of Champions at the Futurity and several State Championships.NOW DON'T ASK ME TO BELIEVE THAT YOUR $50.00 PUPS AND YOUR $250.00 RUNNING DOGS ARE ROUTINELY GOING TO COMPETE AT THAT LEVEL OR WITH THAT QUALITY OF HOUND.iT JUST AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.THERE IS A REASON THAT MOST OF THOSE DOGS GET SOLD FOR BARGAIN BASEMENT PRICES AND THAT'S BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE WORTH.THE OLD SAYING OF" YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" OR "IT ONLY COSTS A NICKLE MORE TO GO FIRST CLASS" WERE COINED FOR A REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've seen so many guys spend their money on cheap dogs and do it year after year and dog after dog and still never get one that suits them.I had a friend that literally went through30-40 dogs one year spending around $300.00 a piece for most of them.He knew what a good dog was but thought he could horse trade his way into getting that world beater. I got to see about every one of them go and they weren't much.Yes,most of them could run a rabbit and you probably could have killed some rabbits with anyone of them.Some gun hunters aren't particular and as long as they're killing rabbits then they can excuse a bunch of faults in the hounds performance.Quite often the reason a running dog is for sale for a couple hundred bucks is because he babbles/pops off/cold trails /runs off game/back tracks,runs tight mouth/won't pack/won't solo/doesn't handle,fights with other males,etc.,etc.,etc.

The reason that some put up with this is because they've never had the oportunity to see what a real top quality hound is capable of.Do you ever wonder why a consortium of Japanese buyers tried to buy International Field Champion Branko's Ali-Baba years back by offering Branko $30,000.00 for him?My friend Mike Blair in New Hampshire sold International Field Champion Greenbriar's Birch Haven Merlin for $5,000.00 and that was in 1992.What do you suppose Kevin Monroe was able to get when he sold International Field Champion and 2006 A.R.H.A. World Hunt Winner Greenwell's Reggie?
A GOOD dog or prospect is worth the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If you spend your time with hounds of lesser quality then you probably will always have hounds of lesser quality.And as always this is just MY humble opinion.

[TC]

Good post !!!! Shady Grove Good post!!!!!

[crittergitter]

.Quite often the reason a running dog is for sale for a couple hundred bucks is because he babbles/pops off/cold trails /runs off game/back tracks,runs tight mouth/won't pack/won't solo/doesn't handle,fights with other males,etc.,etc.,etc.

i have an AKC , 3 yr old male , that i paid $200 for that does none of these things , and is still getting better ! and as for competing at that level , your right , he prolly cant , but you know what , i dont ask him to , dont expect him to , he dont have to , hes just got to run rabbits back to the gun ! and i couldnt be happier with the way he does it ! " a good dog or prospect is worth the money " maybe , to some , but ive got my limits on what ill spend to shoot some rabbits !

[crittergitter]

oh and just for the record , $150 for that kind of pup IS a fair price ! i just dont have to spend that much for what i want !if i had to pay $150 on a pup to continue to do this , i would , but when a pup cost me $250 and up , ill find another hobby !

[2500 HD]

Four years ago, I paid $350.00 for Belle at 8 weeks old and had another $250.00 in AKC reg,, DNA profile, pedigrees and air freight. I paid $300.00 for Blue at 8 weeks old as well.
Best money I ever spent and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
TC and Shady Grove have it correct.

One time right 2 times expensive!!!!!!!!!

[mrbazile]

explain to me how you , me or anyone else is going to better the beagle breed ! lets say you or i master a breeding plan and develope a line of dogs that are far superior than anything else , or better yet , we breed 1 super dog , and everyone and their brother is breeding to it , or breeding to every relitive it has out there because of the name , for generation after generation , how is that bettering the breed ? if they cant breed to it they will breed to a littermate , son or daughter , what ever they can get there hands on that carry that kennel name ! now lets say you have a true super dog , what would a stud fee for a dog like that run ? $200 , $300 ? higher prolly , are you going to personaly watch every female that wants breed to it run ? reject the ones that arent worth breeding or the ones that arent up to your standards and hand pick the ones that are trully a good match for him and only breed to them , I DONT THINK SO ! your going to take your oultrageously high stud fee and run , not carring how the pups turn out , because there not yours ! how does that better the breed ? people need to get down off there high horses , most people , ( admit it or not ) are only concerned about what directly affects them !

Crittergitter the answer is yes to all the above. First off I don’t stud my hounds out (example) I have a few lemon and white hounds and puppy peddlers continually ask to breed to them based on color and are willing to pay a high stud fee, well I never have and never will because I work everyday and don’t need to use my hounds for profit. I have a few friends and we breed among each other and a fee is never passed, as far as the sale of hounds I sell very few as a mater of fact the number is probably less than ten, now the number of hounds I have culled well Ill l just say it is a whole lot more than ten. I would rather cull a inferior hound with faults versus selling one and yes they could be sold at $250.00 all day and if I sell one it will be a good one just not right one for my pack or breeding program example color, speed, line control. As far as the price of dogs well lets start from a pup and add it up.


monthly flea and tick prevention for a year $10
monthly worming for a year $60
heart wormer $25
puppy shots 4 times in a year $25
lets say a 35 l/b dog eats a 40 l/d bag of feed a month $22 X 12 $264
AKC litter registration fees $15
gas to and from the field ?????
well, you get the picture now a broke AKC Reg 2 or 3 Year old priced for 200.00, things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm .In Texas or La. if a 2 or 3 year old AKC Reg dog is brought for $200 and its not from a good friend, you better believe and know one thing you have bought a CULL.

I never gave anyone hell, I just tell the truth and they think its hell!

[DRamey]

Alabama John, I have been meaning to send you a "howdy" to one of your posts for some time and have been some busy. That $500 hound you have for sale for $1000, would you consider $1200, or maybe even $1500? Do ya have any swampland or a bridge over a big lake for sale? Good post, by the way. Amazing how silly we can get over hounds, isn't it? Best to you and yours, and good running.

[T LEE]

Great Post Shady Grove Beagles . I don't think It could have been said any better.

[Alabama John]

hey, Thanks Ramey

Missed you too. WE both have a sorta warped sense of humor!!! Especially you. Reminds me of two inmates in an insane asylum. One said to the other "Ramey, I believe we are the only two here that have any sense and sometimes I wonder about you".

Yes, we do get silly about all this. These boards are sorta like when I get to sit on the porch of our 'ol country store and shoot the bull with friends about our dogs. I guess this is taking that place as most stores don't have porches with chairs or rockers anymore. Too bad most of us will never meet in this life.

Lots of opinions and all interesting.

The real truth that comes to the fore is that a different type dog is needed for the different conditions experienced by each beagle owner in the region and conditions in which they hunt or trial.

So, there is and cannot be the perfect dog. What I breed for most wouldn't have.

WE've been on here a long time huh. I know you are having a good life. Savor it.

[mrbazile]

Great Post Shady Grove Beagles good way to sum it up.

[Bunnyblaster]

This is right about when Joeyman jumps in with that smiley face of the guy eating a bag of popcorn!!! HAHA

Here's the deal if you ask me.............I see and agree with both sides of the story and here's why. Crittergetter and others like him like to go out and run bunnies, shoot bunnies, eat bunnies and spend some time with their buddies. Just like the rest of you guys which include mrbazile, tc, shady, etc.....................it's all about how you approach it. TC tends to take some of it a little more serious than crittegetter who takes it a little less serious than I do. And what I mean by that I'll admit is hard but I'll try to explain.

Guys like TC try to get their head completely wrapped around the big picture and see every side, every angle and every aspect of their dogs and their breeding program................absolutely nothing wrong with that and we all can learn a great deal from TC and others like him. Guys like crittergetter on the other hand just enjoy the dogs so it's hard for them to understand why others take it quite so serious just like they don't understand why he doesn't take it more seriously. And I don't believe there is anything wrong with that either. Like I said I fall somewhere in the middle on this one. I'm not in the same league as TC with my understanding and knowledge of the breed but I can understand the benefits of taking the extra time to improve on his dogs like he does. I can also understand just wanting to own some good ole beagles and killing some rabbits. The problem is when one side tries to tell the other side that they are wrong.................everyone gets caught up in the part where someone gives their opinion, the next person disagrees with them because that's not how they do it and the next thing you know both sides are defending why they think the way they think.

In the end, like has been said probably a million times or more, it's all in what makes YOU happy. The only people I would ever disagree with are the ones that don't have the best interests of the dog in mind when they make their decisions. There are people that do it strictly to make a buck and I suppose to some that's ok as long as the dogs are properly cared for in the process. But in my opinion if you're not doing this because you love working with the dogs then you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.............regardless of how much you choose to charge for or spend on a dog.

Some guys wouldn't agree with how I do things, and that's ok. I do it for me and not for anyone else. And I can also say that guys will get some good to very good dogs out of my kennel down the road for a rather cheap price............that's just me. But if you asked me would I ever like to own one of TC's hounds, you can bet your backside I would. You play in this sport long enough and you figure out where you fit in and we all play a role. As long as you're enjoying it and most importantly like I said "doing what's best for the dogs" I think everyone is right and no one on here should say otherwise. I don't live your life and you don't live mine so I don't expect to be told by someone else how I should go about doing it whether it has to do with dogs or anything else.

You guys all have valid points.....................everyone just needs to be big enough to say it.

Enough said on my part, so I'll quit rambling now.

[steve w]

There sure is some interesting points of view on this post, I look at it like this. Buying a beagle is like buying a lottery ticket, the potential for a winner always exists. The odds go up for the winner with the amount you spend.I agree most with Shady Grove yet I don't doubt crittergitter and his dogs or methods.What I would really like to know is when all these dogs get culled for thier various reasons how many times should it have been the owner that got culled insead? I think a lot of culls got potential that for whatever reason people can't see or bring out.

[old blood beagles]

When I posted earlier I used the word "cull" as a catch-all, and this was wrong. I really enjoyed the post by LaneLine describing "Culling" and "Sifting" and this should be explored more, by all of us. Now I am not going to back down from my orginial post and say that the prices are to high because I dont think that they are. A hound should be priced on their ability and genetics and lack thereof. Now I am not saying that there are not grade dogs out there that are just as good or better than reg. dogs when it comes to running a rabbit becasue there might be. For me and my kennel, I like doing research on the lines that I pick, and then plan on a long term breeding program that will produce a higher % of hounds for the abilities that I have breed for.
If the pups or young hounds dont mature in their hunting abilities like I think they should or if someone offeres me the money that I think the hound is worth then I will "sift" them out of my kennel. If I sell an 8 week old pup, what the pup becomes is on the new owner (I gave them a background on their parents, grandparents, great grandparents and gave them a direction to go in based upon genetics), if I sell a 8 month old pup that is just starting then I take responsibility of what I have trained that pup on during the past few months and I expect the new owner to develope their skills until maturity, if I sell a 3 year old running hound then I should take the credit for what that hound is doing correctly and I should also take credit for any negative behaviors that the hound is doing.
What I would like to see is a user agreement on this board that states if you sell a hound then you must take full responsibility for the actions of that hound and if the hound is not as described then you are banned from selling on this board. This would cut back alot on the "culls" that are being sold and would also be very informative for those who are looking for buying a pup, started dog or running hound and who they can trust and/or do business with.