Culls

[ycedy]

Keinnan,
I think you may need to define CULL. It seems that your post is being taken out of context or the subjuct is danced around. I dont want to step on toes but let me give some examples.
1. Shyness- you cant shoot a gun around with them leaving the country. The owner has to tie a piece of weedeater string about 4 foot long on the collar so they can step on it to catch them after the hunt.
2. Ghost or excess barking and barking where there is no rabbit
3. Backtracking or hanging up on a track and cant move it foward
I can go on and on so lets get real. A lot of us know what these traits are but some want to over look them. My goal is to have the best hunting beagle possible and run some trials.
Foot speed is not a faught.
I know what I like in a hound, some like different things in their hounds. But you all must agree the three this I named are faughts.
So call it like it is and let not dance around this subject.
Thanks
Cedric
Blackswamp Patche Beagles

[DRamey]

Jimmie, exactly! although I'm way too henpecked and foolishly trained my wife very well with firearms about 15 years ago. BC, I think you hit the nail on the head and you are not starting a revolution because there are as many hunters on this board as trialers who agree, I'm sure.

[scott calkins]

WELL SAID SHADY GROVE BEAGLER. THE SAME FOR ME!!!!!

[old blood beagles]

Culls is a hard word to define. If you are culling from the stand point of trials then you might be giving up a great hunting hound and if you are culling form the stand point of hunting then you might be giving up a great trial hound. I have had many of hounds out of FC and LPGRCH and world champ hounds and HOF hounds and grade hounds and I judged them all the same "under the gun". If the hound does not perform under the gun then it is a cull. If the hound does not fit in with my other hounds then it is a cull.

The reason that I go by Old Blood Beagles on this site is because I like the great old hounds up close in my pedigree. I like the hunting hound that earned his/her title on the off months from hunting. It use to be that you would take your best hunting hound to the trials and run against other great hunting hounds and then the owners would get together and breed their best to another best. I like to do research on the parents, grand parents and great grand parents of the litters that I plan therefore reducing the number of "culls" that I might have.

One more thing that I would like to add is that I am seeing more hounds offered on this board for 150.00, 200.00, 250.00 at three years of age? what is up with that? If I have taken the time to raise and train a pup up to the age of 3 then I have alot of money invested in him/her and if that hound is only worth 250.00 then something went wrong. Instead of passing this "cull" hound off to another person, give it to a youngster to get them started. In my eyes a well planned, researched litter of pups should start off at 250.00 and up, and a trained rabbit hound at the age of 2 1/2 should start at 750.00 and up and if your hounds are not worth this amount then they are "culls".

[S.R.Patch]

Thank the Lord for giving me the humility to be happy with my culls for I couldn't afford the cost of pride "&" dog food...

[kennel cleaner]

Culls are mighty tasty Puppy Taco

[Ky. Hunter]

Most of my culls are "rabbit dogs" that other gun hunters are glad to own because I am looking for something that I will probably never find and that is "The Ultimate Beagle". I am hard to please when it comes to hounds and I have people ask me all time why I got rid of a certain dog and the only reason I can give them is that the dog is not what I am looking for and like I said I will probably never find what I am looking for so therefore I go through a lot of dogs and money.

[old blood beagles]

Patch, I did not want to come off the wrong way on this cull topic, but how many times have we seen on this and other boards the same dog being traded 3, 4 or even 5 times in a given year. I understand if someone is needing the money and must sell a dog quick for cash, but pushing culls off to another beagler for 200.00 is just wrong. I also believe that breeding just to produce and sell pups is wrong. Now with that being said I also understand that you might buy a pup and it might turn out different than what you thought and it does not fit in with your pack and you are just wanting your money back.
To me the value of a pup or a hound is how much pleasure that I will get from it, or how much pleasure that the person that I sold it to or gave it to will get. I would rather save up 750.00 to buy a hound that is what I want then go out and spend 250.00 on three different hounds and be in the same boat as I started (with a CULL).

[bocephus52804]

Before this discussion goes much further, remember we are on the WORLD WIDE WEB.
When I was 11 years old, my uncle gave me a field trial reject. I hunted with that hound and killed a few rabbits over him and fell in love with beagling. I have had beagles for 38 years because I got a cull from a man who recognized what several of the above who have posted understand. Unless a hound has severe physical deformities or obvious mental deficiencies, there is someone out there who would treasure it so it isn't really a cull to them. Bettering the breed occurs within one's kennel and is personal, and the manner of culling to better one's kennel should remain the same way. We are under fire politically for what we do and must be careful about the image we portray.

Culling is like having a affair, keep ur mouth shut. Thanks ramey

Wow!! Thats totally different than the last time I read something from you on this subject. Must be you learned something. Thanks!

[cajunmeadows2]

People continue to sell culls because a large majority would rather pay $100 for a running dog and take their chance than spend $200 on a pup or $500 on a well started dog.
I recieved a call a few years ago and the guy said " I hear you have a female beagle that is running good and is reg. for sale for $100" I laughed because I sell my pups for $150 - $200.

[crittergitter]

In my eyes a well planned, researched litter of pups should start off at 250.00 and up, and a trained rabbit hound at the age of 2 1/2 should start at 750.00 and up and if your hounds are not worth this amount then they are "culls".

sounds like someones got an ego !the day i spend that much on a dog , i hope my wife has enough brains to cull me ! and ill bet you dont have a cull in the bunch , right ! if this theory was true there would be a whole world full of culls !and very few left for breeding . i am in no way an expert on the subject and i mean no disrespect towards anyones dogs , to each his own ! i have been around rabbit dogs most of my life , and some pretty darn good ones too ! and have yet to see a rabbit dog i would spend $750 and up for , JMO , i have a 3 yr old CULL! that i bought at the age of 2, BROKE ! for $200 he is in no means a great , unbelievable , super dog , he is a rabbit dog ! and i wouldnt be ashamed to hunt him with any dog out there , will he be as good, prolly not !but he'll be good enough and thats all that counts , after all hes just a rabbit dog , so keep them $100 - $200 culls comming ive been killing rabbits off them my whole life and God willing ill need a few more the rest of my life ! if you ask me rabbit dogs priced at $750 and up and pups at $250 and up is whats wrong with this great hobby , rabbit hunting used to be something that anyone could afford to do , we were very poor when i was growing up but we still had a rabbit dog , we rabbit hunted because bird hunting was for the rich ! but then again , money is what makes the world go round ! darn shame too ! i will garantee that my dogs are worth more to me than anyone else , but even i wouldnt pay that much for one of my hounds !

[crittergitter]

just kinda curious , everyone says you cant get rich with selling rabbit dogs (still trying to figure that one out , at $750 -$850 a pop )and you go run a trials and win all of them , and end up with a room full of worthless plastic trophies collecting dust or you hunt and run for fun , so why spend so much for either ? i guess its kinda like buying a gas gusling Cadilac SUV to drive to work instead of a Chevette , its a Status symbol , im not trying to keep up with the Jones's just run some rabbits ! i noticed a long time ago on these boards that it is usually the ones that try to sell pups for $200 and $300 and running dogs for $750 and up usually have more to say on the subjects of bettering the breed , culling , flooding the market and so forth . whats wrong ? having trouble moving them ?

[old blood beagles]

Crittergitter, I did not mean to ruffle your feathers but if you read my first post it stated that you see the same dog being sold 3 or more times in the same year for the same amount of money. Do you see something wrong with this picture? I do. Everybody on this board has had a "cull", it might be a cull because it is a boot licker, or a back tracker, or a ghost runner, or it is to slow, or it is to fast, or it has a chop mouth, or it has a ball mouth, it swings, it skirts, it does not explode out of the check, or its a tri color or its a bluetick. A cull is what ever the owner does not like about that dog. I have in the past bought 200.00 dollar dogs and it would not suit me so I would buy another 200.00 and so on. I did not sell these hounds to another man knowing that the dog in my mind was what I would call a "cull", I would give it away to another younger person getting into this great sport or as a pet to somebody. On the other hand the most I ever paid for a hound was 800.00 and I wish I had a kennel full of them.
I dont have an ego when it comes to my hounds, but I dont believe in passing on a "cull" rabbit hound to another hunter because there is something really wrong with this hound. The majority of pups that I have had , I give away to friends that also rabbit hunt and for the ones that I raise to 8 months and older and have them started I do sell for 250 and over because the new owners know what kind of hound that I produce and out of what pedigree that they come from. If I take that hound on up to 2.5 or 3 years of age then I do expect a higher dollar for that hound because I have alot of money and time invested in that hound.
I have never priced a hound to somebody to make money off of it, I have priced hounds on what they are worth.

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

First, none are holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing a purchase.


As far as running dog prices and culls...that is strictly between two consenting adults and no comments here are going to change what a cull is or isn't or what it is worth. That is strictly a personal choice. My opinion is if a two year old dog can steadily circle his own rabbit then he may be worth feeding and valued considerable more than an eight week old puppy. If this running dog has been trialed and has points in several events then the price will increase accordingly.
Like with anything in life you normally get what you pay for...granted there are some theifs out there and the buyer needs to do his homework.

[Bunnyblaster]

I tend to agree with what Pike is saying and at the same time I see both sides of the argument and to me both arguments are reasonable. It's like Pike said, it's all personal choice and we're all adults here.

The one thing I do tend to disagree with is something you said Old Blood. If a cull is a cull like you stated then the LAST person I'd be giving a cull to is a kid or someone just starting out into beagling. When I first got into hounds 4-5 years ago I didn't know much and for lack of a better explanation I was taken advantage of (IMO) with the first 2 beagles I bought. I truly bought someone else's culls/problem. Now I won't completely pass the buck here because I could have done some more research before buying these dogs but at the same time I didn't really know any beaglers yet and like I said I didn't know much about beagles in the first place so I didn't know what to look for or what questions to ask so I learned my first few lessons the hard way. And the point of me telling you this is that these first 2 dog buying experiences nearly made me give up beagling all together. I remember thinking to myself if this is how beaglers are and if this is how beagling is then why do I even want to start beagling? Fortunately I didn't quit and I found a couple of nice fellas to help show me some stuff and have since learned that most true beaglers are good folks and the first couple of guys I dealt with weren't the norm.

Old Blood, you should be either giving those true culls away as pets or to experienced beaglers that know what they're getting into when they take the dog, not new blood or young blood. An experience like that could sour them from the sport completely. Now if your giving them a dog that's too slow for you, or a male like you said before, or you don't like their mouth or something like that then yeah, that's a different story. And I'm also assuming you tell them up front so they know what they're getting from the get go.

But if you really want to get new blood excited about the sport then give them or sell them really cheap one of those $750 hounds that you talked about. Same as you said, I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers here but the feed and meds for a dog are consumable items that come whether you have a good dog or a bad dog. And in my opinion if you charge for a dog based on the time you have into it well, that's fine and I understand that too. Like I said before I see both sides to it. But I would throw my time out if it meant giving a kid the best dog he or she might ever own. That would be worth more to me than the money. Now if a guy like you came up and wanted to buy that same dog, well the price my be $1000 . Just kidding, but you get my point.

And I don't know you and you may give lots of good dogs to lots of deserving people. It just struck my wrong when you said to give a cull to a kid or newcomer because in my opinion a true cull is the last thing someone like that needs.