Culls

[mrbazile]

why are so many beaglers selling their culls instead of doing what it necessary to better the breed?

[Buckeye Bob]

What is necessary ?

[Shotgun John]

For one what most trialers would call culls or would cull, usually makes excellent rabbit dogs for people who just want to have fun killing rabbits. What is bettering the breed?

[foxxy]

And it is against the law if i am thinking what you are thinking

[T LEE]

I run Little Pack and try to look for a " Flashy" dog that will stand out in a cast.

I've ran with lots/tons of dogs from different owner's that don't have any major faults, jump a rabbit every now and then and pull a check... maybe 2 out of 10 checks with a pack. Just Not a "stand out"

THIS is a dog I would sell. Is it a cull ??? NO. IS it a dog I want to keep?? NO. I think 80% of the "pack dogs" out there are made up of this type of dog. You could kill rabbits with this type of dog and pleasure run but It would Not do you much good in trials.

I guess everyone of us have a different idea of just what a cull is.

Every man should feed what he likes.

[Newt]

why are so many beaglers selling their culls instead of doing what it necessary to better the breed?

Post from thread on "Improving the breed:
"There's a man that has a akc field champion that he is really promoting. My friend bought a pup out of the field champion didn't see what he was getting, the owner shipped it to him. I will discribe what it looked like; body like a weener dog (to long for good conformation), crooked front legs, bottom front teeth protrude over the top ( jimber jawed) a crook right in the middle of his tail. My friend is madder than heck, he called the man about it and he keep's saying i don't know what you are talking about. Don't worry i'm not going to tell who the man is or the dog, but the dog will tell on himself. There's a old saying if you can't trust the banker who can you trust."

[bucks better beagles]

This topic is of particular interest to me. A "cull" by definition is something rejected or worthless. If a "cull" is sold or given away, it is not worthless if the buyer is happy with the purchase or gift. However, I think most of us think of 'culling' as removing an animal that does not improve our packs. This being said, to me, it is the most difficult thing to do in beagling. Also, it is , to me, the most important. If you do not "Cull", you will end up with a pack of "culls".

Then the question is, who is the arbiter of what is a "cull" or not. I guess it is the person owning the dog. However, A well know beagler once gave me $1 to take a cull off his hands. I kept it for a while and it really turned on. I then sold it to another beagler for $600. The flip side of this is that I have also purchased many questionable dogs and ended up culling them in a more serious fashion.

The moral of my story: one man's cull may be another man's treasure. But one should never sell a cull without the buyer taking a good look at it and being satisfied. This then is the key to any successful dog trade, buy on trial, make up your own mind and, if it suits you, nothing else matters.

Bob-Michigan

[DRamey]

Before this discussion goes much further, remember we are on the WORLD WIDE WEB.
When I was 11 years old, my uncle gave me a field trial reject. I hunted with that hound and killed a few rabbits over him and fell in love with beagling. I have had beagles for 38 years because I got a cull from a man who recognized what several of the above who have posted understand. Unless a hound has severe physical deformities or obvious mental deficiencies, there is someone out there who would treasure it so it isn't really a cull to them. Bettering the breed occurs within one's kennel and is personal, and the manner of culling to better one's kennel should remain the same way. We are under fire politically for what we do and must be careful about the image we portray.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Before this discussion goes much further, remember we are on the WORLD WIDE WEB.
When I was 11 years old, my uncle gave me a field trial reject. I hunted with that hound and killed a few rabbits over him and fell in love with beagling. I have had beagles for 38 years because I got a cull from a man who recognized what several of the above who have posted understand. Unless a hound has severe physical deformities or obvious mental deficiencies, there is someone out there who would treasure it so it isn't really a cull to them. Bettering the breed occurs within one's kennel and is personal, and the manner of culling to better one's kennel should remain the same way. We are under fire politically for what we do and must be careful about the image we portray.

Culling is like having a affair, keep ur mouth shut. Thanks ramey

[TnHoss]

LOL, I like that analogy Maple Valley.

[SMytyk]

I'm primarily a rabbit hunter so a field trialer's cull might be my ideal hunting dog.

[BCBeagles]

You are correct on that. But in bettering the breed you need to try and minimize faults and deficiencies if you
want better dogs, opinion only. I am also only a hunter, but I want to hunt the best I can. I don't go to follow around
sorry dogs! I am sure you feel the same way. I, in the last year,I have purchased two females not matched to the trial
standard for my area. Probably not fast enough for LP and probably too fast for AKC format. They are both excellent
hunters and can both solo a rabbit real well. Are they a "cull" to a trialer, yes. But, to a hunter who demands quality
they are way better than average. I have hunted both of these females with trial quality dogs, or so I was told, and they
held there own in ALL areas. There is a lot of things in these trails that are judge based and not rule based. This is
all my opinion, I am not looking to start a revolution by stating these opinions. Hunt what you like and learn as you go.
I am no expert I am just trying to keep quality dogs to do something I love and runs through my veins every time
I hear a hound open on a rabbit!!!!

Jim, WV

[ycedy]

I have hunted with mrbazile over the last few. He has a monster pack of that can run and jump a rabbit solo or with the pack. He sets his standards very high. Some people may not have seen a great hound that will run a rabbit like a singer sings a song, like a doctor reconstrucks a broken nose or like a painter paints a picture. Many years ago I two was sold sub standard hounds it took me months to save enough money to buy and fly them to Houston. I lost because I did not have the money to fly them back. Being 15 at the time I cound not do anything but take the loss this was one expense lession. Now If you get a cull the breeder want answer the phone, or gets an attitude because they sold you trash and you want the money back. I will say this Know who you are buying from and they have a reputation of doing the right thing. However $'s will make people do things they would normally not do.

Cedric
Blackswamp patche Beagles

[scott calkins]

IAM no professinal but have had a few outstanding dogs tomy credit. One thing ive learned along the way is you dont buy anything likeapup from someone unless youknow this person well without seeing it and you dont buy a dog that is running unless youtry it first and youusally get what you pay for. i have personally bought dogs from trialers that they considred culls due to to much noise because they ran primarily in goodweather and notsnow. so i have put these dogsin snow trialsin MI AND won . due to that cull and i believe that we are suppose to be bettering the breed for hunting not just trialing. a lot of people are breeding for trialing only not gunning to. and there is a lot of people that will tell you iam very hard to please as far as hounds go. but i have sold a great deal of hounds togunners hwo love them. and gave a lot of good solid hounds to youngsters . to get them in our sport. so just because you dont like that hound doesnt meen someone else wouldnt love it. and culls in one format might fit better in another like spo vs lrgpack. and dogs from the south vs dogs from the north differnt kinds of rabbits and conditions like snow and habitat play a roll. in what is a cull. so not all dogs are culls . in everyones eyes . so you must have a packofall FC,s . cause i dont but i definantly have some gundogs i cant live without under certain circumstances.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I don't sell a lot of dogs and if I get one that pleases me then it will probably be here for life unless someone one gets foolish enough and offers more money then I can resonably turn down which has happened on a couple of occasions.
Be that as it may, I have sold some dogs [both coon dogs and beagles] over my 40 year houndogging lifetime.With pups you really never know what you're getting and all I try and do is my due diligence in researching where the pups came from such as their pedigree [ancestors],the performance of their parents and parents littermates,whether the cross has been made before and the results,whether the sire or dam have a reputation as a pre-potent reproducer, the reputation of the individual who is raising the litter, make sure the pups have been adequately socialized so you don't have to deal with a shy pup and make SURE the pup is coming from the TYPE of hound that you like.Other then the fact that not every pup turns into the rabbit dog we're all looking for,if you do right by this pup in his training and raising your percentage of culls will be very low.
Occasionally I will have a grown dog that I've raised and trained that I will decide to sell.The first thing that folks will ask is "what's WRONG with him/her?"The answear is"nothing". Sometimes a dog just doesn't suit me for one reason or another.Could be personality,could be that they don't mesh well with the pack you're running them with due to nose,mouth foot speed,etc.,could be they're a kennel barker,maybe not a good bitch to raise pups from.For me it's usually because they're a male! I much prefer the females but from time to time I've raised up a male and by the time he gets around 3 years old I can't wait to sell him but,that's just me.Doesn't mean they are CULLS. They have all the rabbit running skills to do the job .What suits one may not suit another.I can honestly say that the folks that have bought dogs from me over the years are VERY pleased with their hounds and I can use every one of them for a reference .
If the dog truely is a CULL,one I wouldn't be selling him and two I wouldn't be talking about him or where he is now.
The truth of the matter is that way too many hounds get culled because of the folks that own them as much as by their own short comings.JMHO