Shuttin' Detroit Down

[RiverBottom]

Have you seen this video yet?
http://www.cmt.com/videos/john-rich-cou ... id=1608351

Great song, but it hits a little too close to home. I've had to take that walk with a lot of my friends at work lately, just waiting for my number to come up. Another round of layoffs coming next week...

[S.R.Patch]

Yeah, that's my new favorite song.
I love that part about "they're selling make-believe and we don't buy that here"...
I watched last night where Regan started the easing regulation on Companies to police themselves, gutted EPA and said business will watch over themselves... Do you remember Earth Day in the 70's and what brought it to a head?
There's even talk of busting up monopolies, bring back anti-trust law and making CEO's and Board of Directors accountable to shareholders of ownership, wouldn't that be a change. No more Banks and Insurance Companies buying large block of other Company stocks for voting power to sell them out and then dumping the shares before the Company tanks and goes under. It's all a big game to them, "he who hold the purse strings is boss". We will suffer for the lack of regulation, there are no heads on the block YET.
Wonder who the owners of the CDS policies were betting against all the toxic loans, you have to know how to milk the mouse without getting bit...

[barnold1]

But the news today is that while Yobama's preparing for a BK on Chrysler, "reports that an agreement was reached with the United Automobile Workers union to protect pension and retiree health care benefits in the planned Chapter 11 filing, which could come next week."

So even though their over-compensated, unskilled asses are a major part of the problem, this joke of a leader wants to use taxpayer dollars to let them keep their superiority over the common assembly line worker?

[Pine Mt Beagles]

Shuttin' Detroit Down
by barnold1 on Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:19 pm

But the news today is that while Yobama's preparing for a BK on Chrysler, "reports that an agreement was reached with the United Automobile Workers union to protect pension and retiree health care benefits in the planned Chapter 11 filing, which could come next week."
So even though their over-compensated, unskilled asses are a major part of the problem, this joke of a leader wants to use taxpayer dollars to let them keep their superiority over the common assembly line worker?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HERE FOR SURE,THE RETIREE'S AND AND PENSION PEOPLE DON'T NEED OR HAVEN'T EARNED THEIR HEALTH CARE OR PENSION ,IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.I GUESS I JUST MISUNDERSTOOD ,
THANKS

[barnold1]

Those are the legacy costs that prevent the big 3 from building a profitable vehicle at a price point that makes it competitive. Standing on an assembly line, doing repetitive actions anyone (including the local burger flipper making minimum wage) could master in a matter of minutes does not "earn" one those kind of benefits, not while the common folk are looking forward to old age on Medicare and the ponzi scheme that is Social Security.

I'm not against all unions; I believe the skilled trades such as plumbers/electricians/etc. deserve to be compensated for their mastery of a craft and the abilities to do what others can't. But I've read one of these UAW yahoos posting in defense of their obscene pay/benefits by saying their work is monotinous. Hell, reviewing legal documents and crunching spreadsheets is monotinous way to spend hours upon hours, but not everybody has the eudcation/experience to do it. And if I didn't have work to do, I wouldn't be sitting on my ass playing cards and doing crossword puzzles while getting 90% of my pay. Skillset ==> value added. UAW ===> broken business model

[Pine Mt Beagles]

NOT TRYING TO BE ARGUE MENTATIVE HERE ,WHAT YOU ARE SAYING,IS IF SOME ONE ELSE CAN'T DO THE JOB, THEN PEOPLE WHO CAN DO IT, DESERVE THE EXTRA PAY AND BENEFITS.---IS THIS RIGHT I DON'T WANT TO MISUNDERSTAND

[barnold1]

I'm saying a job that anybody can do would have a lot of qualified applicants, so there shouldn't be this "entitled" set with earnings and benefits way out of whack compared to what the others are making. Hell, I think the guys building Hondas and Toyotas here in this country are well paid considering they need no education or any real skills.

But if there's an occupation where relatively few are qualified to do the task, the market will set the compensation. darn, I wish we could all hope to be that first pick in the draft this weekend, but it ain't happening.

[RiverBottom]

I think the point of the song is the bailout boondoggle isn't doing anything to help out people that work for a living. We would have all been much better off had the government given all that money to consumers (that's us) in the form of tax cuts and let the free market decide which bussinesses fail and which ones survive.

By rewarding bad companies in the form of a bailout you are in effect penalizing the good companies. You are also taking money out of the hands of tax paying consumers. I'm not a fan of unions, but it isn't the workers pulling GM down. Last I heard, Ford isn't asking the government for a handout. It is possible to pay workers a good wage and still run a successful company.

The best thing the government can do is get out of the way. More regulation won't help. The amount of regulation now in place is unbelievable, my company had to hire several people just to deal with all the extra paperwork caused by the last round of increased regulation. If businesses get taxed and regulated too much they will just pick up and move to some other country, they have to in order to compete.

So tell me, would the world have stopped turning if they had let AIG file for bankruptcy?

[bluegrass]

The best thing the government can do is get out of the way

[Rabbithoundjb]

Bravo, well said Riverbottom. My thoughts exactly.

[S.R.Patch]

I'm saying a job that anybody can do would have a lot of qualified applicants, so there shouldn't be this "entitled" set with earnings and benefits way out of whack compared to what the others are making. Hell, I think the guys building Hondas and Toyotas here in this country are well paid considering they need no education or any real skills.

But if there's an occupation where relatively few are qualified to do the task, the market will set the compensation. darn, I wish we could all hope to be that first pick in the draft this weekend, but it ain't happening.

What you fail to understand is, there is no "entitled" it was bought and paid for by the workers " in-lew of" wages in the past. You see, when the Co and union sit down to negotiate, the Co has a amount of money they are willing to pay out in cost to workers. The union negotiates where they would like to have this money go within their benefit package. The Co can say, "the cost to keep your insurance in force has increased to the amount that their is nothing left for wage increase", you now have to pay higher deductible.
We got a 3% raise in wages but actually lost money by the co-pay going up and the next years insurance deductibles doubling to keep our insurance enforce. The Co has very smart people in place to figure out cost of production and profit margins(ps...most Co's are self-insured, they just hire insurance Co's to administer pay-outs). If workers are getting lavish benefits, it's only because the Co has a large profit margin to draw from. When profit margins narrow, reductions are made to contracts and the workers. There's no reason to be mad at the workers for the contracts they've negotiated with the Co, he who holds the purse string is boss. The problem is, the contraction has been so quick and severe, the losses on investments so great and the flow of sales coming to an abrupt halt that everyone is caught underfunded.
To me, running a business is just a bigger version of running you household. You have obligations that must be met and these you must stay focused on and manage cost and investments conservatively, then, you have your mad money that you can spend and invest with greater risk. Co's, people and the whole Country were treating their whole budget like mad money and rolling for the 7's. This was reckless, but does not negate the responsibility of still meet ones obligations.
Being conservative you don't get rich but you ride out the bumps of life more smoothly and are in better shape to take advantage of opportunities when they arise, these are the Co's you want to buy into, it is "old school" economics 101...

[S.R.Patch]

So tell me, would the world have stopped turning if they had let AIG file for bankruptcy?

Now that would have been an interesting scenario, the holders of the CDS not getting paid for the loan failures...naw, that goes against the rules of the chess game...

[Pine Mt Beagles]

HEY, LET'S JUST SHUT THEM ALL DOWN AND HIRE ILLEGALS PROBLEM SOLVED ,IT SHOULD NOT MATTER THAT THE PEOPLE THAT BUILT THESE COMPANIES ARE LEFT ON THE STREET .JUST GOOD BUSINESS HUH,

[Tim H]

IT SHOULD NOT MATTER THAT THE PEOPLE THAT BUILT THESE COMPANIES ARE LEFT ON THE STREET .JUST GOOD BUSINESS HUH,

If that is true then aren't "the people who built the company" responsible for the failure of the company?

[barnold1]

Here's a total load of BS:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/co ... 2009050603

...An administration official confirms that a $4 billion bridge loan and $3.2 billion in bankruptcy financing won't be paid back by Chrysler following bankruptcy....The reality now is that the face value [of the $4 billion bridge loan] will be written off in the bankruptcy process," said the official, who added that the 8% equity stake that Treasury will be receiving as part of the company's reorganization is meant to compensate taxpayers for the lost money....."While we do not expect a recovery of these funds, we are comfortable that in the totality of the arrangement, the Treasury and the American taxpayer are being fairly compensated," said the official.....

I guess it's his turn to get down and return the favor.....