danny vansickle wrote:you can toif you get him 14 or over in natural stance
I'm pretty sure the standard is 13" to run in the 13" class, why would you make someone measure him over 14" for the free lunch?
cause everyone is saying he is 14+.and he is not
ya know,this is gettin old,acctually kinda boring,im goin to run dogs,i will lkeave ya with this,akc issued me a card saying my dog is to run in the 13 in class,i didnt print that baby out on the puter,and they even investigated it,and still issued it,so,what did i do wrong?i ran my dog where akc said to,and like i said,no one said a word till he started winning.
---edited---
Do not bring other's into this.
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Danny first let me say I never have met you as I trial in NY/NE mostily.You have knowingily admitted dogs being 16 and over thus by providng incriminating evidence to AKC now use as a lead to further investigate allegations.No one singled you out.The photo of your dog and those that know how to properily measure hounds can easily spot he is a 14 inch or better hound measured in a proper posing manner on the withers as AKC requires.Maybe your use to seeing alot of oversized hounds allowed to participate based on what you said and really think he is only 13 1/2 still a violation of the rules.I am sorry to tell you he looks much bigger than the true 13 hound.I have had to cull hounds myself his size and it's a shame to have a good one and have the curse of the bambino (off sized dog).The good news is a smaller dog in thick brush and briars can often beat a big dog.The disadvantage is really in LPH In high scent days. Any way you like him and love him.He is your pride & joy enjoy hunting him and fun running tryer in the 15's.Rules are rules whether we like them we have to abide with them.Life will go on as bad as it seems.I have little true 13's.It's no fun to have to run against a hound(s) knowing full well it's not.Maybe AKC will now get the 15's cleaned up and your odds will be better in the class he really measures in. STEVEC
don't blame others blame those that gave you the 13 officials knowing darn well he wasn't. they only brung you grief.just because others are doing it doesn't make it right.if you haven't been through a judging course and taught how to properily measure you may not of known .you really have blurted alot of things out making me wonder if your new to AKC trials. you may have been the unlucky victim to first get caught while their many that were worse than you. i saw you post that those without sin cast the first stone comment. i harbor no ill will toward you. i ask for those to help your fellow man up after he has been down and shake the dust off. beagling in general has integrity issues that arise we have to help police and fix them and teach those that may be inexperienced or nieve.we most cull those that don't learn from mistakes or those that make up their on rules to serve their own self gain. many are now aware who done these measurements and their credibiltiy has fallen off the charts. some are in shock this could ever happen. obviousily based on these posts of 16-17 inche hounds this is a horrendous problem.STEVEC
ncbeagler wrote:don't blame others blame those that gave you the 13 officials knowing darn well he wasn't. they only brung you grief.just because others are doing it doesn't make it right.if you haven't been through a judging course and taught how to properily measure you may not of known .you really have blurted alot of things out making me wonder if your new to AKC trials. STEVEC
Oh Steve, but Vansickle has been to the judges seminar. If all would check out the Mid West site,http://www.mid-west-gundog.com/ Vansickle has listed himself as a licensed Judge. In reply to Vansickles statement of in the dogs natural stance, I am sure you are well aware that owners train their dogs to hunch, therefore not allowing for a correct measurement. I truly believe that this, hopefully is the start of cleaning it up for the betterment of the trials, and more importantly the betterment of the breed. How many wonder when we see a dog advertised for stud, if he is a true 13 of 15. I know for a fact of a few that are not within the limits that they have been officially measured into.
I sincerely hope that this becomes a true mission of the AKC. In doing so maybe it will deminish the amount of mismeasurements, and the doing of favors in the future.
Caddis the way things kept being blurted out I thought he was new to the sport. It's a shame those that put the 13's on this hound have thrown it all away.The 15' S will be proabaily be next after all the voluntarily generous leads.Steve
IMO, Danny should be counting his blessings that he can keep the wins and points that his dog earned in a class that AKC says he did not belong in to begin with.
Jonah Staten
"Walkem when you have to and Catchem when you can"
George Pirman did an AKC judging seminar that I attended many years ago. My dad brought a dog for George to use to demonstrate measuring. Every person at the seminar measured Shad, and the difference from tallest to largest was less than 1/4 inch. Although every dog might measure different based on the day, no dog should ever measure out by 1 1/4 inches.
I am still trying to figure out who would measure Bandit into the 13" class and why they would measure him under 13". I have run against him several times, and he isn't even close to a small male. In the LP trials that I have seen him, he is usually one of the bigger dogs.
if i remember correctly there were AKC field reps there when some of the measuring took place, if that is true IMO the judges should not be repremanded in any way. and I attended the seminar as well years ago and we all measured the same hound and no two were alike and there was atleast 1" variance. there was no direction given as to which ways were incorrect or which were right so that means that all measurements taken were acceptable to AKC. Not a good training system IMO
Last edited by drifter22no1 on Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jonah Staten
"Walkem when you have to and Catchem when you can"
I'm not on here to debate any dogs size, but I see everyone talking about people making there dogs not stand under the bar. Well I don't have a stand but a friend of mine does and everytime I use it to measure my dogs they flat out do not want to stand under it. I don't beat them or train them not to stand, they just do not like being under it. They are very well mannered dogs and are not scared of me in any way. The thing is when I decide to go to a trial, if people keep making these statements, people automatically think I beat my dog. If you people measure this many dogs you should know there are plenty that do not like to stand under one. My house dogs wants no part of it either. I just think people should know just because a dog doesn't want to stand under a bar doesn't always mean someone has beat them.
Paul, anyone who's owned more than one dog knows that some don't like the measuring stand, or anything over their heads, or being posed for pictures, etc. We know this. We don't assume that someone has beaten their dog, so I think you're safe there.
But, when "I" (me) see a dog that hunkers under a wicket, and I know it's not this dog's first rodeo, I suspect it's a marginal dog that's been encouraged to hate the measuring stand. (How's that for diplomacy?) Especially when I see that same dog later standing proudly for his trophy...on a table with 4 other dogs...his nose in a dog's butt and a dog nose in his. This is not a dog that fears the field trial routine. It is the responsibility of the owners to make sure that dog will stand to be measured, stand for painting, and stand for pictures. Funny how they will stand still to be plastered by a branding iron with yellow road paint on it, followed up by a big puff of baby powder, but they can't keep their feet under them for the 10 seconds it takes to be measured. IMO, if the dog won't stand naturally under a wicket, then he needs to be posed as close to a natural stance as possible without taking the weight off his feet, and be measured. And if the owner doesn't like it, tough.
Paul Curtis wrote:I'm not on here to debate any dogs size, but I see everyone talking about people making there dogs not stand under the bar. Well I don't have a stand but a friend of mine does and everytime I use it to measure my dogs they flat out do not want to stand under it. I don't beat them or train them not to stand, they just do not like being under it. They are very well mannered dogs and are not scared of me in any way. The thing is when I decide to go to a trial, if people keep making these statements, people automatically think I beat my dog. If you people measure this many dogs you should know there are plenty that do not like to stand under one. My house dogs wants no part of it either. I just think people should know just because a dog doesn't want to stand under a bar doesn't always mean someone has beat them.
I agree with Paul totally, this is the same point i was trying to make on an earlier post. THERE ARE DOGS OUT THERE WHO WILL NOT STAND, and usually these dogs will not stand for painting, or pictures. Some do not like being placed above the ground to be painted. I would rather see Akc have a concern of judging in the field, than the issue of measuring.Again this is just my opinion. I personally don't see anything naturual about measuring a dog. LET'S throw them all down and run em, get along and have some fun.....
this is the same point i was trying to make on an earlier post. THERE ARE DOGS OUT THERE WHO WILL NOT STAND
IMO, if the dog won't stand naturally under a wicket, then he needs to be posed as close to a natural stance as possible without taking the weight off his feet, and be measured. And if the owner doesn't like it, tough.
*shrugs*
I can appreciate your "let's just all have fun" philosophy, but this is field trialing, not fun running, and while it can and should be fun, people spend thousands of dollars and much time away from home campaigning dogs in licensed field competition. They wear out trucks. They do. Imagine in professional wrestling if they said, "awwww, I know this is a Welterweight class and he's a Light Heavyweight, but what the heck...let's just throw 'em on the mat and have fun." It doesn't work like that.
In doing so maybe it will deminish the amount of mismeasurements, and the doing of favors in the future. 
They do. Imagine in professional wrestling if they said, "awwww, I know this is a Welterweight class and he's a Light Heavyweight, but what the heck...let's just throw 'em on the mat and have fun." It doesn't work like that.