cheating,akc ukc,arha

[jar242]

I'd be willing to try UKC format if there
was one in my area .
I'd much prefer the whole cast judging
than one or two guys .



.

Too bad that's not how it is, you can be outvoted on a cast and all kinds of stuff, guys get in the winners pack and manipulate scoring so one dog will win if the other needs a win to champion if the other dog already has a win. One of the reasons I feel some trialing is a joke and a lot dogs with titles probably didn't earn them. Funny thing is, if I had a dog that had a title and it really didn't earn it, it would hurt deep down. A lot of people want the titles so when they breed they can sell more/charge more and that's fine but just like anything else, when money is involved, some people's ethics and morals take a real beating. Not every hunt is like this, I'm just saying it happens.

[wvduece]

buddy how far are you from champmanville wv rock lick beagle club ukc good bunch of guys there too i dont belive its very far from you jb

I'd be willing to try UKC format if there
was one in my area .
I'd much prefer the whole cast judging
than one or two guys .



.

Too bad that's not how it is, you can be outvoted on a cast and all kinds of stuff, guys get in the winners pack and manipulate scoring so one dog will win if the other needs a win to champion if the other dog already has a win. One of the reasons I feel some trialing is a joke and a lot dogs with titles probably didn't earn them. Funny thing is, if I had a dog that had a title and it really didn't earn it, it would hurt deep down. A lot of people want the titles so when they breed they can sell more/charge more and that's fine but just like anything else, when money is involved, some people's ethics and morals take a real beating.

[pine top]

well put golden acres i my self have been in the arha lp div for 11 years i have trailed from la to ind Fla to TX and i have never seen the out and out cheating that i read about on some threads .
have i been on some cast that the judge made a call i would have made differently of course .i have been on cast were the
judge got nothing but the strack and jump and then got left behind for the rest of the cast but gave all he or they had .
but i have been on more cast weather as a judge or handler when the judge brought back the winner just like it was
and a handler get bent out of shape because he herad his dog get checks.he heard his dog jump the rabbit and so since his dog did not win he got cheated
what happened to thanking the judge for judging your dog .with out them how many hunts could we attend just my two cents worth.

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

I think most of the time in most trial formats you'll get a fair shake. There will be those 10 percenters out there that will cheat but I think most guys are honest. Some judges will be a little biased too, but that is not going to categorize them as cheaters. Some judges will have certain styles of dogs they prefer over others, etc.
If you go to trials to have fun, fellowship with others with similar interests and to watch different hounds run, then you'll enjoy the trialing scene much more. Any hardware you pick up along the way is just a bonus.

[Tim H]

if I had a dog that had a title and it really didn't earn it, it would hurt deep down.

I had a dog that needed a win in UKC and in a winners pack it came down to a tie between him and another dog at the end of the winners cast. Now UKC allows for a coin toss to determine the winner and it would be well within the rules to do at that time. The guy that owned the other dog wanted to toss a coin. I would've been OK with losing that way since the rules allowed for it, but I didn't want to win that way. So since both have to agree to the coin toss, I turned it down and we went into extra time. Ended up winning and feel good about that. I could have won the coin toss and ended up with the win anyway, but that wouldn't have carried the same weight with me.

[jar242]

if I had a dog that had a title and it really didn't earn it, it would hurt deep down.

I had a dog that needed a win in UKC and in a winners pack it came down to a tie between him and another dog at the end of the winners cast. Now UKC allows for a coin toss to determine the winner and it would be well within the rules to do at that time. The guy that owned the other dog wanted to toss a coin. I would've been OK with losing that way since the rules allowed for it, but I didn't want to win that way. So since both have to agree to the coin toss, I turned it down and we went into extra time. Ended up winning and feel good about that. I could have won the coin toss and ended up with the win anyway, but that wouldn't have carried the same weight with me.

You really had to earn that going to "overtime"!!!

[Spruce Ridge Beagler]

I have gunned over and just run for pleasure with dogs and people from all formats. I have seen many that I would be proud to own but just as many that I would not feed.
I personally have stayed away from UKC because of what I have heard from UKC trialers about pencil whipping and slick handling. That is hear'say since I have never been.
I know a man in the UP that owned the club grounds for a LPOH club, he just up and quit because of what he called politics and buddy judging. Once again hear'say since I have never been to an AKC trial.
Now to answer your question Jeff, what I did in little pack was to become a judge, know the rules and be fair and honest.
You can't change anything if your standing on the outside scratching your head. You must become actively involved or you will always be talking about what needs to be changed instead of becoming part of the solution.

[Chief Long Hair]

I've been screwed more in the UKC hound and "HUNTER", ( probably should be handler), format than ARHA and AKC combined TIMES 10!!! I think some wrongly call it the "hunting beagle" format because they tend to forget that the handler is a BIG part of the equation. (Strikes their dog in when it didn't say crap; "That's my dog barking in the check, he got it!!!; "THAT'S BULLS**T!!! My dog had the line!!!"; "My dog came through the line first not his!!!", etc...) How long did I compete in UKC do you ask??? WAY TOO LONG!!! 5 years in this format. I know what I'm talking about here. A dog degreed in this means absolutely nothing to me. It's a joke and I'm in no way the only one that feels that way.

UKC could be on to something though with their performance pack but I see too much difference between what judges like on the same day. For example, I saw where one judge had absolutely no tolerance for what "he" thought was a mouthy dog and minused it out, while on the same day but in a different cast, another judge saw the same type of dog moving the rabbit and won.

ARHA LP, same as UKC's performance pack judging issues but they allow rough running to the extreme. I can't say anything about ARHA's progressive pack. I've never done it.

That's why I like one set of judges like AKC. I can expect more consistency there. I know what judges will put up with a mouthy dog if he/she produces but can't stand any amount of rough running. I know what judges will put up with some rough running if it doesn't screw the pack up much but won't give an inch with a mouthy dog. I know what judges want nothing but a clean running, tight to the line, even if it's slow hound and is always looking for the dog on the outside to demerit or order up for disrupting the pack. At least I know what I'm usually up against.

To sum this up, I see allot of cheating in UKC's hunting beagle. I see inconsistency in UKC's performance pack and ARHA's LP with maybe a little buddy judging. AKC, I see difference of opinions of what is a dog and maybe a little bit of buddy judging.

JMO,
Da Chief

[tenntreedog]

USED TO BE A UKC MASTER OF HOUNDS & BENCH SHOW JUDGE IN COONHOUND EVENTS SAW IT ALL HEARD IT ALL LOTS OF TIMES IT WAS EASIER TO BEAT THE DOG THAN THE HANDLER THATS WHY SO MANY BIG NAME COON HOUNDS ARE RUN BY PROFESSIONAL HANDLERS DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT BEAGLE TRIALS BUT I CANT IMAGINE A LOT OF DIFFERANCE. JMO

[thornie]

It seems like, we all have some gripeing or complaints with all registries. One you have a right for a vote and others you are asking a judge to do his best job and bring the right dog back. But you know what, if were not satisfied, why do we keep going back?? I myself have been down this road in the coonhounds and now beagles. The reason I guess I keep coming back is, I get to meet alot of new and old friends. I get to see some good dogs, meet some good breeders and just enjoy myself. So no matter if I don't think it was right, I still keep coming back, and that's why I just enjoy beageling, wheter it be pleasure hunting, field trialing or hunting.

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

Thornie...I couldn't agree more with your post and if more guys were like you, trialing would even be better.
I remember at the Midwest trial at Shumaker Farms, West Lafayette, Ohio this past year when your female got picked up in cast #3 and you said, "Oh well, I guess I will go to the fair today." You have the right attitude and it was a pleasure meeting you that day.

Ed

[SHAWN G.]

WELL SAID GOLDEN ACRE,, I PERSONALLY KNOW JUDGES HERE IN MICHIGAN WHO I WOULDTRUST TO JUDGE MY DOG AND HIS DOG IN A FINAL CASS, WITH HIM BEING THE JUDGE, AND I KNOW I WOULD GET A FAIR SHAKE, AND HE WOULD BE HONEST AND JUDGE THE DOGS NOT JUST HIS. BUT THEN ON THE OTHER HAND, THEIR ARE SOME JUDGES OUT THERE I WOULDN'T TRUST TO JUDGE ANY DOGS AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE JUDGING AT ALL. YOU WON'T EVER GET AWAY FROM BUDDY JUDGING, BUT USUALLY THAT GUYS GIVES UP AFTER AWHILE ANYWAYS BECAUSE HIS DOG ISN'T WORTH A CRAP!! AND HE WON'T ALWAYS DRAW HIS BUDDY AS A JUDGE, AND USUALLY STOPS COMING, BECAUSE THEY FIGURE THEY ALWAYS GET SCREWED FROM A ANOTHER JUDGE BECAUSE THERE BUDDY WASN'T THE JUDGE THAT DAY, REMEMBER CREAM ALWAYS RISES TO THE TOP, NO MATTER WHAT JUDGE YOU HAVE, I PERSONALLY THINK MICHIGAN HAS SOME OF THE MOST TRUST WORTHY CLUBS AND JUDGES ANYWHERE IN ARHA.

[SHAWN G.]

JUST ONE MORE THOUGHT, NONE OR AT LEAST MOST OF US HAVE LIFES, AND ARE NOT GETTING RICH FROM TRIALING, IT USUALLY ENDS UP COSTING US MONEY, I LOVE, AND ENJOY RUNNING MY DOGS AT CLUBS AND WITH FREINDS, AND COMPETING HIM, OR HER, AGAINST OTHER DOGS, AND IF THEIR GOOD ENOUGH THEY WILL EARN THERE OWN TITLE, BEAGLING HAS MADE ME ALOT OF FRIENDS AND MEMORYS, BUT SO DOES MY KIDS, BOWHUNTING, BOWFISHING, AND SO DOES WHATEVER ELSE I LIKE TO DO. JUST HAVE FUN WITH BEAGLING, WHETHER YOU ARE INTO ARHA, AKC, UKC, OR ANY OTHER FORMAT, YOU LIKE WHAT YOU LIKE, JUST DON'T TAKE IT SO SERIOUS THAT IT TAKES THE FUN OUT OF IT, "ESPECIALLY YOU BIG AKC GUYS" 'LOL' AND FAR AS JUDGING GOES THEIRS BEEN PLENTY OF TIMES I FELT I GOT WRONGED, BUT I KEEP COMING BACK, BECAUSE I LIKE IT, SO FOR THE LONG HAUL OF THINGS, IT HAS NOT BEEN LIFE ALTERING, I STILL CAN'T RETIRE FROM MY JOB, BECAUSE I GOT RICH FROM BEAGLING,I JUST ENJOY DOING IT.

[swing]

I dont think it is all cheating, I think there is to many judges judging that are not houndsman and dont know what a dog is doing.

[rnbrunton]

I dont think it is all cheating, I think there is to many judges judging that are not houndsman and dont know what a dog is doing.