cheating,akc ukc,arha

[jeff m]

now i know we have had some good discussions the last couple of days,so i'm curious on what you guys think about cheating,like buddy judgeing,bad judgeing,and the clubs that condon it,[and we know they do it],now i'm not askin to throw people under the bridge,but we know it happens,and how can we stop it.

[Ronnyg]

OMG!!!! Jeff are you seriously opening this can of worms? I am willing to bet right now that this thread will get ugly reeeeeaaaalll fast! Goodluck! Let me do this for ya. DING! DING!

[DoubleEagle]

Actually that one's pretty easy in my opinion. If you go a certain trial once and there's some buddy judging going on... don't go again. If one of your friends is talking about going warn them privately about your experience and tell them to go and see if their experience is different. Eventually word will get around and attendance will fall off. Sponsors will not sponsor if it's the same small group of friends each time. And it will fall on that same group of friends to keep things going financially.

Mike McCollough

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

Does cheating occur at times in field trials?
Are many politicians corrupt?
Do people steal?
Do college kids cheat on tests?
Are some humans absolutely no good?
When breeding dog$, is the glass half empty, or half full?

Here is my reccomendation:

Never breed your bitch based on anything you read or hear, etc.
Go watch the stud run.
And, then go watch him run again.
Next, only breed a bitch that will better the breed...that's your responsibilty in bettering the breed.
For the most part, you'll get a fair shake....but in anything where there is money or bragging rights involved you will find some that will cheat. Overall, there are a lot of good judges and handlers in the sport.

[jeff m]

c-mon guy's i didn't write this to get ugly,i wrote this so we can try to fix it.we all know it happens,and why?,are we really that desperate to have the best.?

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

c-mon guy's i didn't write this to get ugly,i wrote this so we can try to fix it.we all know it happens,and why?,are we really that desperate to have the best.?

News Flash.....on the open forums a thread like this has no choice but to get ugly... but so far so good.

[T LEE]

Jeff, Are you trying to take the attention off the AKC measuring thread?

[jeff m]

t,lee no i'm not tryin,but that had some very good post's on there,i'm just tryin to get all of comments and what all you guy's think,maybe open other discusions has well.

[old blood beagles]

Jeff I am the one that stated that before a dog can receive a FC title that an official AKC rep must measure that hound. I believe that the title has become more important than the dog that has earned it. When I go hunting with my buddys we run all kinds of hounds some arha LP, some AKC SPO, and so on. When we run these hounds together you will always here someone say "man that small bitch can light up a rabbit" and this is where we get into the measuring of a hound. The 13 inch and under is for these types of dogs, too show case the smaller of the breed and what they can do. When people run that 14 inch in an 13 inch and under class all they have done is cheat the correct type of dogs.
It is the responsibility of the owner to enter his/her dog in the correct format and it is the responsibility of the judges to make sure that the dog falls under the rules that have been set forth. When neither of these are being followed they are cheating the people that have played by the rules and I do believe that their title should be taken away, THEY DID NOT EARN IT THEY STOLE IT FORM SOMEONE THAT HAS EARNED IT!
Field trials are to show case a type of hound and when you enter the wrong hound into that format then the rules mean nothing and so does the title. I am going to run in the Mid-West this year and if my dog is good enough to earn a title this year or next or the next year I will be able to say that he earned it and if I deside to stud him out then my advertisement would read a true 13 inch FC beagle that you can measure at anytime you want.
When you cheat to get a win you are not only cheating the people at that trial you are cheating everybody that has a pup from that title holder because he/she is not a true champ they are just a dog that was pushed through the cracks.

[JUDE]

I'd be willing to try UKC format if there
was one in my area .
I'd much prefer the whole cast judging
than one or two guys .



.

[jeff m]

hey jude,I agree with you on ukc,I run ukc and sometimes it's hard to beat the man with the score card,but usaully the cast know's what's goin on,and i prefer to run ukc format.jmo

[tinymwoods]

I'd be willing to try UKC format if there
was one in my area .
I'd much prefer the whole cast judging
than one or two guys .



.

If only it was that simple. I have been pecil whipped alot more in UKC then ARHA. You have a hunting judge (in Hunting Beagle formats that I have ran). The judge judges his dogs and the others. He decides all the checks. Checks win a lot of casts. He may decide your dog going 30ft is not enough, but his dog barking in the check area picks it up. If you are on a cast with 3 guys that rode down together, alot of times you may as well give it up. There are judges that know every little trick in the book. They will interprete rules that will help them. If you go to the master of hounds, they are in a grey area of the rules. I have seen ghost lines called. I have seen lines being ran 15 foot from where the rabbit crossed and points awarded and dogs crossing the line alone and not getting squat. I have put 4 dogs in a UKC hunt. Alot of what I seen has nothing to do with the casts I ran. I was done wrong once, I still would have lost, but I was cheated. There is no fool proof way to make sure all judging is fair. Just don't go to crooked clubs, be fair to everyone, and let the dogs do the talking.

[wildhare2]

I've seen plenty of pencil whippin in UKC as well. Also alot of slick handlers who know the rules and know where they can be bent and broken. An Old man told me this along time ago when I was trialing in coon hounds. He said " son, any sport where a human is involved, there is cheating" Bottom line is, it happens everywhere so either deal with it, or just don't trial. I've said that when there is no fun left in it that I will quit going. It really sucks that people have to cheat, especially where there is just braggin rights.

[yellowdog]

the biggest thing i see on some of these clubs is you see the same names at the same clubs pumpin out champion after champion after champion..that is in no way shape or form bringing any credit to the title of rch or ukc hbch in my opinion..now will it stop ..?...nope...but i guess if you look close enough you can see what clubs are doing this and you know how much emphasis to put on their champion hounds...;lol..i have seen way to many champions in the formats i have ran in that couldnt circle a rabbit by itself to the gun to save its own life..and in a hole it takes away from the guys that actually put some time and effort and countless hours running and training and conditioning their hounds to make them EARN their title..anyway thats how i see it...so i kinda take the rch,fc,hbch, titles with a grain of salt when i see who and where they come from.. ..to many people are breeding to hounds like these because they have championed without actually seeing what they are breeding to and in the long run it puts a ton of unwanted underperforming hounds on the ground that nobody wants and then these same hounds get traded all over the country on the pedigree ..that aint no life for a hound that didnt ask to be here and it just cost everybody who touches it time and money..when all you have to do is consider the source and go watch the hounds run...period..and this will continue to happen until we as beaglers take it on our shoulders to do the right thing in the first place..

[golden acres]

Lets look at this as the glass is half full. Their are a lot of good judges and a lot of good clubs in every format. I would rather talk about good judges and clubs.