Nose question

[KILLNTM]

Here's something I've been pondering. How can you tell whether or not a young hound (1-2 yr. old) has a great nose, average nose or poor nose? Can you accurately gauge it by the number of checks the dog picks up in comparison to the other dogs. It looks like if you just looked at the quality of the race itself, there could be several other factors why the dog may not be looking good that have nothing to do with it's nose (too fast, too competitive, etc.) What's the best way to judge a nose?

BiL

[Dale L.]

I am by no means an expert but I think you can tell a lot about a dogs nose in poor scenting conditions. One example would be a dog is running a rabbit good in the brush and then the rabbit comes out and runs down a compacted gravel road for a hundred yards before going back in the weeds. When the dog gets to the road it loses the line and never really acts like it can smell it again. I have witnessed this before and when the dog was taken to the point where the rabbit re-entered the brush the dog took off burnin it up again. In my opinion that dog just doesn't have what I guess I would consider a "big nose." But I do think you can tell alot about the nose in poor scenting conditions.

[jim matuszewski]

I like to spend some time soloing young dogs then you can see what kind of jump it's got,and how he works checks,learns to hunt without getting to competative.

[Newt]

Here's something I've been pondering. How can you tell whether or not a young hound (1-2 yr. old) has a great nose, average nose or poor nose? Can you accurately gauge it by the number of checks the dog picks up in comparison to the other dogs. It looks like if you just looked at the quality of the race itself, there could be several other factors why the dog may not be looking good that have nothing to do with it's nose (too fast, too competitive, etc.) What's the best way to judge a nose?

BiL

Since we can't smell rabbit scent, IMO, the only way is to compare it to other dogs. If he is getting most of the checks then he either has a better nose or has the brains to utilize his abilities more than the other dogs.

[Laneline]

Here's something I've been pondering. How can you tell whether or not a young hound (1-2 yr. old) has a great nose, average nose or poor nose? Can you accurately gauge it by the number of checks the dog picks up in comparison to the other dogs. It looks like if you just looked at the quality of the race itself, there could be several other factors why the dog may not be looking good that have nothing to do with it's nose (too fast, too competitive, etc.) What's the best way to judge a nose?

BiL

This is actually a very good “debatable” question. For me, I would say you know the most about your dog when you “solo” him in various conditions. A few years ago in the mid 90’s there was a guy that had a male from a local club that I got to see and judge all the time. This male won or placed in many trials at a very high %. He would hunt hard and have a lot of jumps and he stayed in the front and was an unbelievable check dog. When I say “check dog” I mean that is exactly how he made champion, he was a check dog deluxe. But, this dog could not circle a rabbit when he was run on his own. Even in good conditions he could rarely bring a rabbit to full circle. Not to undermine other dogs that has achieved Field Champion status, because he was a “rare” dog. He was so “great” in a pack or trial to watch run, if you would have never seen him solo for yourself, you would have never believed he was like that. But he had a “good enough” nose and hunt that when added to his “extreme” intelligence that compensated for everything else lacking, he absolutely dominated almost any pack. But he could not circle a rabbit on his own because he was forced to rely on his own abilities instead of “out smarting” other dogs and using their abilities against them and for himself. But running in a pack or trial, he did what he was supposed to do, jump the rabbits, get the checks and “out do” or outscore the other dogs. So for me, I would say you actually know the most about your dog and his nose when you “solo” him in various conditions. But you know, I have seen it the other way around too. Dogs with incredible noses “far better than this male” but do not have the “brains” to use it right, and they never place in a trial or do “great” or “shine” in a pack.

[Jay Schrader]

I think the proper way to gauge a dogs nose is to brace it with a dog that you are very familiar with and know what kind of nose power that dog has. You have to have something known to compare it to. Scenting conditions can change fast and multiple times during the course of a day. But... I don't think that simply counting the amounts of checks each dogs gets is in any way an accurate way to gauge nose power. The manner that different dogs work a check will quite often be the difference rather than nose power. Some dogs are experts at guessing and reaching on the checks. Quite often a reaching dog with a sub-par nose will get a check before a dog with a superior nose that is working at the point of loss will.

To get an accurate idea of nose power it takes multiple times afield and watching the dogs very closely. The is no substitute for getting in the brush and following close to your hounds to really know what is happening. Some people think they know exactly what is going on when sitting on the tailgate and listening. But I would argue that if those same guys would get in there and watch they would be suprised at what their dogs were actually doing. I think for the houndmen that are physically unable to stay with the hounds, the best advise is to get someone who can stay with the hounds who's judgement you trust and have that person evaluate the dog in question. Back to the question, I think the best way to gauge nose is under extremely difficult scenting conditions(i.e. old snow, extreme cold, extremely dry) braced with a dog or different dogs that you are familiar with under close scrutiny. There's no shortcuts to doing it right.

[KILLNTM]

I guess what makes it more confusing to me is when you have a tight mouth dog that only barks when she's moving the line fast. I have a female that hunts good, can jump her own rabbit, grabs her share of the checks, but she won't bark on the line until she can fly with it. It doesn't matter if you have her working solo or with a pack. With a pack she may be in the front actually moving the line, but not making a sound until they can pick up speed. At the same time you may have dog behind her who is barking as they work the line. I often wonder if her lack of barking is because she can't smell it well enough, is she just too tight mouthed, or does the other dog just have a looser mouth. She's extremely competitive and will cheat like there's no tomorrow so I also wonder if she's just being sneaky.

BiL

[Gang]

Killntm, you answered your own question in your last sentence.
She's slippen the line, cheating to get out on the pack. She will do good under an inexperienced judge but not a real one. (LOL) I've got 1 hound that is the best cheater I've ever seen, he plays off the other hounds and can make it look as though he's leaving nothing for the pack, but a true houndsmen will send him to the truck. LOL

[klrconcrete]

Every dog is born with a nose, as a dog develops- via time on the ground it learns to use that nose- some learn quickly, some learn slowly, some just dont ever get the hang of it! In a nutshell the "nose" is there- the dogs ability to learn will let you know what you have, if it is given the opportunity. Kurt Robinson

[Jay Schrader]

Kurt,
I would agree that every dog is born with a nose but I definately think that some are born with a better natural ability to smell a rabbit. I also agree that experience and mental concentration are contributing factors to a dogs ability to run in poor scenting conditions. But, I have seen way too many times where one dog was able to outperform the rest of the pack solely on the strength of it's nose. I actually think it's a shame that too many breeders have pushed the envelope of speed and neglected the importance of nose power in their breedings.

[klrconcrete]

Jay, I guess when I think of natural ability I am thinking of the beagles abilities in general not any one specific dog, the breed has been bred for generations as a scent hound for the most part- thus they have the "nose" to do this. I agree that there are dogs that seem like naturals and these are what I categorize as learning quickly. I truly think that these things are the more difficult things to breed for and more often than not take a back seat to speed and other physical characteristics. Kurt Robinson