A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
klrconcrete wrote:They're probably not real prevalent down around Indy!! Please re-read my post it was below zero while I was running, ( that IS testosterone speaking) Kurt Robinson
Yea, but then things like this happens: One day a pack of females was running, when a blizzard came upon us very, very quickly. The dogs were stuck in the storm. We live quite far out, and there was no way of telling where they’d wind up. Once the storm subsided, horses were saddled, and Branko and a friend went looking for the dogs. They found some frozen to death, but also found where one dog had slept on top of one of the dead ones, then left when the snowing stopped. They followed her tracks and found Anna’s Ann. Another couple of hours later and she would have died also had she not been found. Branko tucked her into his jacket and brought her home. She stayed in the house by the woodstove for quite a while. Unfortunately some of her teats had frozen off. "Branko's Beagles {History}" Is a rabbit/hare race really worth that?
I think if I were in Canada, these would be the hounds I would have, for surely none other would be better suited for these conditions than those who are trained and raised there.
This also reminds me of why packs in England are exercised during the off season going to where they will hunt during the season. Any farm 5-6 miles away they will be hunting, they are road exercised to and from that farm during the summer. That way, if any hound is lost, it will know it's way back to kennels from the farm.
i will say this about running in extreme hot and extreme cold..and the only reason i bring this line of hounds up is because i run it and i know about it i am pretty sure i have raised run and started more pups out of this line of dogs than anyone in country..now this particular line of dog originates from newfoundland canada..i have personnaly witnesses several from this line run on solid ice @ 2 degrees windchill about -20 and i have also seen this same line run when it is 100 degrees and humid as all get out and when i say run i am talking about 6 to 7 hours at a time several days a week..am i cruel to my hounds?..no i am not..but in the midwest running conditions vary so much from day to dy that you have no choice but to run in these conditions..now i have linebred and closely inbred this line "some father to daughter crossed"..with the same running ability and stamina and nose and brains to get it all done..are they all fc ...?...nope..but i dont trial every weekend either ..i do run dogs alot tho..more this year than ever because of the slow business at work..so when you say that you have not seen linebreeding or inbreding coming out with results i have to disagre and think maybe you are not looking in the right direction..now before you all jump me and think that i think i have the superior hound ..i dont..i just get to see the results of my breedings and they work well for me..might not be what you all like..also this line i am speaking of is not what some would call big name breeding because it aint..it originates from an old gun hunter on the rock ...anyway if you dont believe me you are more than welcome to come run with me in any conditions i have described and see for yourself..its what i like and will continue to produce ...but you may think otherwise..but linebreeding has worked well for me..good running to all and good luck..again i dont know much i am just a poor country boy from the woods in missouri
home of the tailess wonder ...
Glaserhollowbeagles. owners. Tracy & Bettina skiles 314-808-6291.
NorWester1 wrote:This IS winter running and hunting up here Bev. If you don't wanna hunt and run in the cold and snow then you won't run snowshoe hare in winter. Simple as that. If you wanna stay safe then dont get off the couch from watching tv
Incidently the dogs feet and ears don't get frost bit often. When it happens it's no certainly no worse than a stripped bloody tail or ears from hunting in thorn laden briars
Actually the other dogs were linebred or inbred. However I don't think the style by which they were bred had much to do with todays outcome.
When you say couldn't produce, do you mean she couldn't circle the hare?
Although admittedly off topic, it's not a matter of one up-manship at all. I REALLY would like to see some dogs that can run a hare in tough winter conditions. I'd love nothing more than finding another source. If Maple Valley has them, then I'd like to get some. I also don't care how they are bred up, scatterbred, linebred, outcrossed, or inbred.....anything that can do the job would be fine by me.
Incidently I have owned, seen and hunted with dogs that could run a hare to the gun in the conditions I was out in today....so I know they're out there.
NorWester, have you tried Branko's kennel for hounds that can "get it done". Seems that would be your best source for hounds in your environment. I'm confused when your looking for hounds down here... and everyone down here is looking at hounds up there... maybe we should all just trade hounds for a month and get this whole nonsense out of our systems...
One was a pup from the other, IF I UNDERSTAND YOU RIGHT YOU HAD TWO HOUND' S YOU REALLY LIKED ONE WAS A PUP OUT OF THE OTHER""SO ONE WAS LINE BRED FROM THE OTHER .IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID I GOT A LITTLE CONFUSED THIS POST IS GETTING LONG.....FILL ME IN .THANKS, I WONDER IF THESE LITTLE HOUNDS ARE AS COMPETETIVE AS THEIR OWNERS-----------------------
PINE MT BEAGLES
Last edited by Pine Mt Beagles on Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered
NorWester1 wrote:This IS winter running and hunting up here Bev. If you don't wanna hunt and run in the cold and snow then you won't run snowshoe hare in winter. Simple as that. If you wanna stay safe then dont get off the couch from watching tv
Incidently the dogs feet and ears don't get frost bit often. When it happens it's no certainly no worse than a stripped bloody tail or ears from hunting in thorn laden briars
Actually the other dogs were linebred or inbred. However I don't think the style by which they were bred had much to do with todays outcome.
When you say couldn't produce, do you mean she couldn't circle the hare?
Although admittedly off topic, it's not a matter of one up-manship at all. I REALLY would like to see some dogs that can run a hare in tough winter conditions. I'd love nothing more than finding another source. If Maple Valley has them, then I'd like to get some. I also don't care how they are bred up, scatterbred, linebred, outcrossed, or inbred.....anything that can do the job would be fine by me.
Incidently I have owned, seen and hunted with dogs that could run a hare to the gun in the conditions I was out in today....so I know they're out there.
NorWester, have you tried Branko's kennel for hounds that can "get it done". Seems that would be your best source for hounds in your environment. I'm confused when your looking for hounds down here... and everyone down here is looking at hounds up there... maybe we should all just trade hounds for a month and get this whole nonsense out of our systems...
I'd love to try some of Branko's stuff and your logic is bang on as far as I'm concerned. Problem is his prices are too steep for my budget. He's close enough that I do plan on getting out his way to have a look sooner or later.
Most of my dogs ARE from folks that are hunting and running in these kind of conditions however it's still very difficult to get the kind that can do it.
Last edited by NorWester1 on Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I KNOW WE GOT OFF THE ORIGINAL TOPIC .OF THIS THREAD.COMPARING NORTH AND SOUTH ETC.AND MOSTLY TALKING ABOUT WHICH HOUNDS HAVE THE NOSE TO RUN WHERE .I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR SOME MORE ABOUT MY FAVORITE PART OF THESE LITTLE HOUNDS,,, WHAT I CALL (GRIT)OR INTENSE DESIRE TO HUNT' WITH NO RESPECT FOR THEIR BODIES,I HAVE WATCHED FOR THIS TRAIT IN BLOOD LINES FOR SEVERAL YRS.AND ONE THING HOLDS TRUE EVERY' ONE HAS A DIFFERENT IDEA OF WHAT INTENSE HUNT REALLY IS.WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE NORTHERN HOUNDS RUNNING IN THE REALLY COLD, AND THE SOUTHERN HOUNDS RUNNING IN THE HEAT .WHAT EFFECT WILL TAKING HOUNDS FROM ONE AREA TO THE OTHER HAVE ON THEIR DESIRE.OR SHOULD IT HAVE ANY EFFECT AT ALL.
KEEP'EM RUNING
PINE MT BEAGLES
If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered
I have often wondered the same thing, if I loaded up and headed to say Kentucky tommorrow and even though it may be abnormally cold there right now, it is probably 50 degrees warmer at least than we have had here and tried to run my dogs what would happen? I think the desire would be there but the temps coupled with different game etc. would probably leave me without much running if any at all. Kurt Robinson
Not afraid to think outside the box or walk outside the crowd.
Myself and River Valley hunted Branko's Snowflake Belle and Branko's Smart Sammy today for six hours. It started out at 14 degrees and felt much colder with the wind chill factor, warmed up a tad, then got real cold again.
The two hounds ran one for just shy of an hour before Brian capped it with his new 410 pump. I would say they geared down to a 2 speed for much of the running and they ran five rabbits today. Rabbits were sitting tight and under the snow/blowdowns. These dogs run at 8+ speed when conditions are favorable. The ground had a pretty good cover of snow down and it was the fluffy kind and the wind was blowing pretty good.
I was proud of the dogs performance. The brace circled rabbits over and over. Dogs had no quit and were getting it done, just at the speed the scent would allow.....if we were running hare I am sure the speed would have been much faster.
Extreme conditions at each end of the spectrum will check a dogs oil for sure. I wouldn't expect my hounds to do well at all in a hot humid enviroment, they've never been exposed to it. However I think the same dogs that show the grit and desire to get the job done here would still show the most grit and desire out of their element.....whether or not that is good enough is another question all together.
I've never run cottontail, we have none here.
It's a cool dry environment here. We don't have air conditioning, no reason for it even in the dead of summer. You can count the number of days that it feels "muggy" or humid on one hand. By the same token we were still getting snow in May of last year, and there have been years past when there was still snow in the woods into the first week of June. Then we have our summer followed by a quick fall where it's not uncommon at all to get snow in September and October but it usually doesn't stick until November.
So given all this..... I'm sure it's highly unlikely my hounds could hang with the best in another environment, especially one directly opposite of what they are used to regardless of desire.
The two snow dogs I was referring two started with a real good Ranger Dan female that had the tools. When I outcrossed her to a Gay bred male she had 3 pups and 1 of them had a great nose as well. No line or inbreeding there. I did try linebreeding a real good Ranger Dan male back to her but not with great results. None of the pups had a great nose and I came to the understanding that she did not have the prepotency to produce a big nose. She's likely heterzygotic for the trait and only produces when bred to a big nosed dog. I guess I should have bred her to her son.....
S.R. Patch,
You question wether its worth it to get out in extreme weather? The only conversation Ive had with Branko he was talking about running in extreme weather, so aparently he still thinks its worth it. Like Kurt said, there is a risk every time you go out. I have had a dog hit by a car, and had two stolen out from under me but never lost one to the cold or heat. The safest way to make sure that dont happen is to keep them in the house by the wood stove and if thats what works for you then Im happy for you. I enjoy being out in the extremes and seeing what the best hounds can do, whereas running on a 50 degree morning with a light misty rain where the dogs all pound doesnt show me as much.
Its been my experience that the good snow dogs were good hot weather dogs as well. The key for me was conditioning them for it. During the winter when you run 4-5 days a week in 0 to 20 degrees and then take them out in -20 its not a radical change. During the summer you run 4-5 nights a week in 80+ temps then when it gets 90 its not an extreme change. I think it would be harsh to take a dog from -20 and throw them in 90 deg the next week but not sure where that could happen. I think dogs have much more potential to handle extremes than we think. Poor handling and rapid exposure are stessful to anydog. Its just as cruel in my book when guys let dogs sit in a kennel for weeks at a time (because their lives are so busy)and then go run them for 8-9 hours. Have had guys come north to run hare with me and after 3 hours their hounds are tipping over from exhaustion, being overweight, and gasping for air. This happens frequently and I dont ivite as often as I used to. I love my beagles and try to provide the best for them and in return they seem eager to please me every time out. If that means extreme temps or 12 hour runs they answer the call or I let someone else keep them in the house by the woodstove.
Rob’s Ranger Rabbit Hunter (Lefty)
Rose City Quad King’s
DogPatch Fly
mybeagles what kind of cover do you guys usually run in? is it thick briars or open woods i have seen some dogs that seemed afraid of going into the thick briars and some dont pay it no mind just bust right through the thick stuff now thats desire pine mt you know what im talking about im shure
wvduece wrote:mybeagles what kind of cover do you guys usually run in? is it thick briars or open woods i have seen some dogs that seemed afraid of going into the thick briars and some dont pay it no mind just bust right through the thick stuff now thats desire pine mt you know what im talking about im shure
Big difference when running track dogs on big ole hare verses running twisting turning red briar cotton tail. Gotta have hunt and get off the trail. Hunt and brains are paramount. Foot and nose are secondary and easiest thing to breed for.
A dog with hunt will jump rabbits and a dog with brains will bring it back to the gun. A dog with foot and nose with no brains and hunt will wait for the handler to jump the rabbit... or cold trail one and babble, over-run the line, create checks and never bring it to the gun. Got to have BRAINS first and foremost.
NORWESTER1
I THINK IF A HOUND HAS TRUE GRIT NO MATTER WHERE YOU TAKE IT ,,IT WILL STILL HAVE GRIT. I THINK SOME TIME TO ADJUST TO THE CLIMATE AND A LITTLE CONDITIONING WOULD HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED .I THINK WE AGREE ON THIS PART,,,, MY BEAGLES WROTE------------------- you guys in KY are not breeding for the nose I am looking for---------------------------
MYBEAGLES,,,YOU ARE PROBABLY RIGHT ON THAT .I HAVE OWNED AND BRED A FEW HOUNDS,,,, THAT MYSELF AND FRIENDS HAVE RAN IN A PACK OF 12 OR 15 HOUNDS,AND WATCH THESE FEW HOUNDS LOCK ON' AND RUN A TWISTING RUNNING COTTON TAIL.THROUGH FIELDS OF BRIARS AND ALSO OPEN WOODS IN REALLY HOT DRY WINDY WEATHER AND EVERY HOUND IN THE PACK CHECK THEM SEVERAL TIMES AND WALK OFF, COULD NOT SMELL THE TRACK.AND MORE THAN ONCE' WE THOUGHT THESE HOUNDS WERE CRAZY .JUST TO FINALLY SEE THE RABBIT AND THINK MAN THAT HOUND HAS A NOSE.AND MOST OR ALL OF THE OTHER HOUNDS WE HAD OUT' WERE BETTER THAN AVERAGE' RABBIT AND TRIAL HOUNDS .AND THEMSELVES HAD LOCKED ON' AN RAN THE SAME WAY AT OTHER TIMES. BUT'' NO MATTER'' WHAT'' WHEN YOU FIND A HOUND THAT YOU LIKE HOLD ON TO IT .AT LEAST FOR ME THEY HAVE BEEN FAR AND FEW IN COMMING.........GOOD LUCK
KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES
If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered
JUST AS JOHN SEES IT
Big difference when running track dogs on big ole hare verses running twisting turning red briar cotton tail. Gotta have hunt and get off the trail. Hunt and brains are paramount. Foot and nose are secondary and easiest thing to breed for.