What still constitutes a bloodline

[Pine Mt Beagles]

EVERY ONE HAS THEIR OPINIONS,,THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND!!!!!!!!
PINE MT BEAGLES

[Tim H]

When I say that Ive been through 200 dogs trying to find a superstar, only 2 litters were dogs I bred. The rest were from all the "proven" linebred lines out there. The guys that were claiming to have a real solid line with consistancy.

So you've tried buying the "superstar" and were unable to succeed at that even after 200 dogs? Did you not see the parents run?

I guess what I'm trying to point out, without trying to be rude, is if you have not been successful in achieving the goal you're trying to achieve then should you really be telling everyone else how CLUELESS they are?

I consider myself successful in my breeding program because each time the pups are a bit better than their parents. That is my goal and I'm achieving it. I have developed my program around what other successful breeders have done. However, I don't disrespect other breeders who use different methods. They can be and often are successful as well and some have different goals then I do.

PROVE your method works and stop trying to PROVE linbreeding doesn't work. Your not supporting your position in either very well right now.

[jim matuszewski]

Pine mountain awsome description of a rabbit dog, That being said you can only speculate what your dogs could do in extreme conditions of winter hunting that far north.Norwestr1 has to have breed to 15",more cold nose dogs and dogs smart enough to slow down in extreme conditions.probably going to get in a little trouble here but southern dogs are breed a little more hot nosed than northern dogs.If you want to hunt year round by me if you find you have dogs that can hold up in these extreme conditions you linebreed to those dogs.My line was started by UP large pack branco dog and grade dog. can' t get much done 0 and below,that Iknow becuse thats the world I live in.Do I go out to get to run that extreme condition ? I think If I could aford to go out to Norwestr1 because he has culled and breed to that dog.say what you want to say it's all about geography. not saying a great dog can't learn how to adapt, but people breed to there running "geograpgy"

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

I would love to have a dog with the nose power of a northern snow hound and the honest mouth of a midwest cotton tail hound.
There is a fine line there and when you hit null..you have something.
I won't keep one that barks out of place. But, that's just me... right or wrong.

[Farwest]

I think the people that don't believe in line breeding should take a history lesson and read about the people and the peds of the hounds that came from England. They were the original strains that started the hounds we have to day. I have a couple from the 50s and one form the 40s that show a few peds but also tell about the breeding practices of each pack. They were line bred tight as drums! These hounds man didn't have the internet , betterbeagling or the amarican beagler to tell them who the stud of the month was. They knew their hounds and knew what they would produce. if I had a scanner it would be nice to post some info.
As for examples look at this years LP national trail the 15 bitch is a half brother to half sister cross.
it takes a person with a lot of means to be able to stable 100 or more hounds and give them the running they need to be able to line breed well. Branko has a lot of hounds a lot of running grounds and a lot of time. It is very tough to breed this way but it is the best! Do your hiome work and you will be surprised.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

JIM
SOME VERY GOOD OBSERVATION'S ,SPECULATION AND GEOGRAPHY.I WILL AGREE WITH YOU ON BOTH ,I WILL TRY AND EXPLAIN WHAT JIMBO AND I WERE SAYING.ALL OR MOST OF OUR HOUNDS WILL BE 15 INCHES ,AND CAN RUN IN 100 DEGREE TEMPS AND IT'S BEEN PROVEN AND WE HAVE ALSO RUN ON SNOW I PERSONALLY HAVE NOT RUN IN THE EXTREME CONDITIONS YOU DESCRIBED,-----BUT THIS IS WHY WE OR AT LEAST I WOULD SAY THEY CAN DO IT.MY HOUNDS HAVE NO COTTON TAIL BLOOD ,THEY HAVE NORTHWAY SPUR THE ONLY NORTHWAY HOUND I HAVE USED' AND BIRCH LAKE TEXAS-T,MORE CROSSES OF BRANKO'S WHITE BLIZZARD CLOSE CALL GIRL AND CITY STREAKER IN A 5 GEN .PED.THAN ANY HOUNDS I KNOW OF ALSO TAYLOR'S SOCK IT TO ME ,EXCEPTIONAL NOSE POWER,AROUND 20 % DINGUS MACRAE.I HAVE HAD MORE HOUNDS SHIPPED IN FROM UP NORTH THAN ANY ONE ELSE IN MY AREA.THERE ARE VERY FEW BLOOD LINES I HAVE NOT TRIED.I 'AM ALWAY'S LOOKING FOR WAY'S TO IMPROVE THE HUNTING BEAGLE, I HAVE HAD PUPS OUT OF JACK OF ALL TRADES ,HELI PROP,BRANKO'S .BIG SAM,.THE OLD STRIKER DOG AND RANGER DAN.JUST TO NAME A FEW I KNOW I MUST BE OLDER THAN DIRT .BUT I REALLY ONLY HAVE 34 YEARS WITH REGISTERED HOUNDS.I DON'T MEAN TO SOUND ARGUEMENATIVE JUST TRYING TO EXPLAIN,,I LOVE A GOOD DISCUSSION ABOUT HOUNDS------THANKS
PINE MT BEAGLES

[jim matuszewski]

Pine mt.Please don',t take my post as negative (sorry) you have given very good knowledge and insight to this post. what I'm tring to say is you arelinebreeding northern hare dogs, but because of geograghy you would be culling different than up north, everything and everybody adapts to were they are.you maybe keeping dogs smart enough to do it up there but how could you really ever know if you kept the nose?

[mybeagles]

Im not the one claiming to be improving a line of dogs. Until genetic profiling is done on beagles, I dont thing anyone is. The point is, consistantly dominating lines of dogs do not exist. 3 or 4 of you claim to be consistantly improving your line and have been breeding for 25 years. When can we expect this constantly improving consistancy to start showing? Without being a smart alic, if you have a line of dogs that consistantly produces litters better than parents and it has been years I will gladly give you a fair price for 4-5 pups that you can guarentee will be top performers. Ive heard this from countless breeders, bought 3 or 4 pups from several different guys that were just expensive culls.

I dont know if any of you could tell me what the homozygotic genes your studs possess for specific traits. Which hounds possess recesive genes for faults. Which hounds possess a prepotency for consistantantly producing specific traits. With what hounds you have removed the heterozygotic genes from, and are now ready to use them to clean up a faulty branch of your line. These techniques for inbreeding are an exact science and if followed correctly are foolproof. The problem is genetic profiling has never been done on a beagle so we dont know what genes are linked to what traits in the DNA. If someone has $100,000,000 laying around they are not using, we can have beagles profiled, then we can take a DNA strand and determine what traits a hound will pass on before they are bred. Without that, linebreeding is nothing but breeding the best to the best within a line and hoping the faulty recessive genes dont presenent themselves. Even if they dont, by mating two with the rececive fault we are spreading it through our entire line. This is not my opinion, you can read this in every scientific journal written about breeding methods.

I might not be able to state my argument well enough to expose the far fetched nature of all this breeding, but I do understand what's happening. I stick with my statement that inexperienced breeders that are inbreeding and linebreeding without an understanding of the science behind it are CLUELESS. You don't have to have a Masters in Genetics to breed dogs, but if your close breeding to lock in or remove traits, should you not know how that works? I dont have any hard feelings toward any of you, I just think there is big cloud over breeding practices and the more its talked about the more its exposed.

If any of you feel you have it locked in and have reached the pinacle with your line and have a couple pups for sale let me know. I spend 30-40 hours a week developing pups uncovering all their faults and strengths(Its a great hobby). I would likely be able to give you some positive feedback about whats under the surface. I dont sugar coat it, if a dogs a cull its a cull, if its a superstar so be it, doesnt matter who's kennel its in. I think I have wore out my welcome on this topic so Ill let everyone return to their dreams, post their hypothetical pedigrees in just daydream about how good they will be. Good day, from the land of the morning calm!

[mybeagles]

NorWester1,

We were both a little off on the Hare life expectancy. Here's what the encyclopedia has to say. I was quoting numbers on a cottontail.
Snowshoe Hare
Lepus americanus

At-a-Glance

• Mating: Polygamous

• Peak Breeding Activity: mid-March through August

• Gestation: 35 days

• Number of litters per year: up to 4

• Adult weight: 2-3 pounds

• Adult length: 15-20 inches

• Life Expectancy: 1-1.5 years

[NorWester1]

1 to 1.5 would be a tough haul for snowshoe hares as it is my understanding that young hares are not sexually mature until after their first year. Here's a link, check down near the bottom of the page under conservation. Apparently some live until 6 years of age according to this site, depends on the environment I suppose.

Of course we only know what we are told and read, and I'm not sure how they ascertain such information with any consistent results and some of what is written I would seriously question.

http://www.hww.ca/hww2.asp?cid=8&id=103

Here's a couple that quote the 3 year stat that I used...

http://www.env.gov.nl.ca/snp/Animals/snowshoe_hare.htm

http://www.k12.nf.ca/helentulk/HTE%20we ... oehare.htm

[Tim H]

mybeagles, once again you come out and tell everyone how CLUELESS they are and yet you haven't even forwarded your own methodology. I would figure with your scientific background you could lay out all the details of your method and why your theory is correct. Of course you would also give scientific evidence to support it.

Please for us clueless people, could you explain your scientific background and specialty so we can understand how you have such superior knowledge and where it comes from.

[Farwest]

I dont know if any of you could tell me what the homozygotic genes your studs possess for specific traits. Which hounds possess recesive genes for faults. Which hounds possess a prepotency for consistantantly producing specific traits. With what hounds you have removed the heterozygotic genes from, and are now ready to use them to clean up a faulty branch of your line. These techniques for inbreeding are an exact science and if followed correctly are foolproof. The problem is genetic profiling has never been done on a beagle so we dont know what genes are linked to what traits in the DNA. If someone has $100,000,000 laying around they are not using, we can have beagles profiled, then we can take a DNA strand and determine what traits a hound will pass on before they are bred. Without that, linebreeding is nothing but breeding the best to the best within a line and hoping the faulty recessive genes dont presenent themselves. Even if they dont, by mating two with the rececive fault we are spreading it through our entire line. This is not my opinion, you can read this in every scientific journal written about breeding methods.

LMFAO Some one should have told Willett Randel That. Poor fellow spent his whole life breeding sorry hounds. If he had of know he needed a science degree to line breed it could have saved him a lot heart ache.
Beagles and line breeding have been around a long time before the Punnet square.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

I dont know if any of you could tell me what the homozygotic genes your studs possess for specific traits. Which hounds possess recesive genes for faults. Which hounds possess a prepotency for consistantantly producing specific traits. With what hounds you have removed the heterozygotic genes from, and are now ready to use them to clean up a faulty branch of your line. These techniques for inbreeding are an exact science and if followed correctly are foolproof. The problem is genetic profiling has never been done on a beagle so we dont know what genes are linked to what traits in the DNA. If someone has $100,000,000 laying around they are not using, we can have beagles profiled, then we can take a DNA strand and determine what traits a hound will pass on before they are bred. Without that, linebreeding is nothing but breeding the best to the best within a line and hoping the faulty recessive genes dont presenent themselves. Even if they dont, by mating two with the rececive fault we are spreading it through our entire line. This is not my opinion, you can read this in every scientific journal written about breeding methods.


Amen brother, If people cant do it off a computer it cant be done anymore.I believe people look way to deep at times

LMFAO Some one should have told Willett Randel That. Poor fellow spent his whole life breeding sorry hounds. If he had of know he needed a science degree to line breed it could have saved him a lot heart ache.
Beagles and line breeding have been around a long time before the Punnet square.

[Briarhoppers]

I am a fan of linebreeding....so this question is not against line breeding, but rather looking for info. Also, I do see merit in breeding "best to best" and don't think the linebreeders should look down on those that breed best to best....both are good approaches as long as the individual dog is evaluated and strength, faults, confirmation and health issues are considered.

Out of the "big name" stud hounds that are discuss regularly on this board, which ones would you all regard are the result of a long term, line breeding program?

-pete

[Pine Mt Beagles]

LINE BREEDIND,, INBREED OR OUT SCOSSING----.I STILL BREED THE BEST AND STRONSEST HOUNDS TO GET THE SAME, IF YOU DON'T BREED TO THE BEST YOUR CHANCES OF GETTING THE BEST KINDA GO DOWN A LITTLE. I HAVE STUDIED A LOT OF WILLET RANDEL PED'S YEARS AGO,FRANK REESE AND A LOT OF BRANKO'S PED'S YOU CAN LEARN A LOT BY READING --BUT IT TAKES A LOT OF SHOE LEATHER TO REALLY KNOW WHAT A HOUND IS DOING-----------------JIM ,,I DID NOT IN NO WAY TAKE THE COMMENT AS( NEGATIVE) I UNDERSTAND FULLY' WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND TO SAY THE LEAST IT WOULD TAKE THE HOUNDS QUITE SOME TIME TO ADAPT TO THE DIFFERENT CONDITIONS' AND I DON'T KNOW IF I EVER COULD AS YOU CAN TELL I LOVE TALKING ABOUT THE LITTLE HOUNDS AND BREEDING TO BETTER THEM,------------ON THE LINE BRED STUD QUESTION,,,,I WOULD LOOK AT ABSHIRE'S JUNIE HOUND,HE IS LINE BRED HAS THE TOOLS AND BRAINS AND IS BRED TO REPRODUCE ,JUST ONE MORE POINT A GOOD STUD IS ONLY HALF OF A BREEDING,,,,,,,,,,,GOOD LUCK AND
KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES