Breeding foot speed- in or out

[B.Trull]

I have been told by numerous old timers who have bred beagles for quite a while that it is easier to breed foot into a hound than out of a hound. My own experience has proven this as when I cross medium fast hounds to medium hounds pups ended up medium fast both times. Input appreciated. Peace

Brad

[mybeagles]

Mr. Trull I am about to try my hand at this. I have just purchased a medium speed female to breed to a male I have thats slightly faster than I like. A couple of my friends have medium speed females they are going to breed to him as well. One thing you might want to consider is the individual dogs solo speed. Some dogs solo speed is much different than their pack speed. Their solo speed may be medium but run with faster dogs they try to run faster. In my mind these dogs are a little over competetive and may or may not settle with age. The male I speak of was a medium speed the first 20 months of his life. Since he started trialing and being run with faster hounds he has increased his speed considerably. This leads me to beleive the dogs we run them with can increase their speed, even if it exceeds their ability. Do you run your hounds with any faster dogs? Maybe your running Partner.
To answer your question, according to the genetic pundid square, only 1 out of 12 pups will have a mixed trait assuming speed is a dominant trait. I would assume it is because it seems to be easy to add. Obviously the best way to get medium speed is to breed medium to medium. Just curious why you would breed the medium fast dog if true medium is what you want.

[Big Dog]

To My Beagles - What I take from your post is that in dominant traits the pups will either take after the sire or the dam in most occassions. It is only a 1 in 12 chance that you will get a mixture? Is that right?

Big Dog

[mybeagles]

Big dog, thats the deal. Problem is not much work is done on dog genetics so knowing whats a dominat trait and whats recessive can be tough. In general if its easy to change something its probly dominant. Nothing is absolute but rather percentages. You could get a litter of 5 and 3 of them get mixed traits but not likely. This is a big reason why linebreeding works so good, but I dont care for it because it also brings all the recessive traits to the front. Hope that helps, Im not an expert but study it as much as I can at college as its quite interesting.

[B.Trull]

The best female I have is medium - fast by my standards. She hunts hard , has an average nose, excellent mother, no cold trailin and really doesnt have many faults. She might be true medium to those running LPH or LP but to me she is just a notch faster than medium. My friend and partner owns the sire, who ocassionaly will potter on some tracks. I just dont believe that there are as many truly fast hounds who can keep a track up and not blow up the pack. I want to shhot da bunny after repeated circles , if I miss, bring it around again. not hole it I am a rabbit hunter. the trends in beagling seem to get faster , faster which to me doesnt neccessarily mean I will shoot more rabbits over them than medium speed dogs. I am afraid of breeding to fast and then having to start over again. the farther north you go the hounds seem to get faster and faster. I remember 5 years ago you'd find as many stud dogs adds for medium speed pack hounds as hare types, not now though. Peace

Brad

[James Carman]

In an attempt to slow my hounds down and decrease the check area for ARHA gundog brace, I bought a traditional brace hound. I bred her to my Beauregard. I bred a bitch from that breeding to a son of Beau. I then bred a bitch from that litter to my Billy. The litter is 4 weeks old. I hope in this litter I finally have put a brain in the pups (mising in all of the previous pups). The mother of the pups is slower but not much cleaner than my average dog. In 7 months I will see if all this has shown any benefits. I have been at this breeding for 6 years.

[blackdirt beagles]

my stud dog of the last 7 years was only a high med speed dog in his prime and he never produced anything slower than himself that i was ever aware of. quite often he produced what i call fast dogs. of course half the breeding depends on the female also but i would say that it seems easier to me to add speed than to take it away.

[Steve C.]

While I enjoy watching a good fast hound in action and want my own hounds as fast as conditions warrant, it's also about the last thing I look for in a breeding. I don't want slow dogs under any circumstances but of all the hound traits necessary to consistently produce game, speed is by far the most overrated. A medium speed dog who has few checks will bring the rabbit back around faster than the fast hound who is forever overrunning and creating checks. If you want more or less of anything, find a stud who is solid in everything you're looking for, but who runs at the speed you want. I agree with Mybeagles that very seldom will you see a mixing of traits in pups. Fast bred to slow will generally result in some fast, some slow, but very few medium. Keep in mind that you're not mixing "blood", but inheriting one trait or the other according to the chromosomes of each parent.

[S.R.Patch]

Nose + brains + desire + conformation
scenting conditions = SPEED

It's the combination or balance of traits within the hound that produces it's style or method and the rate at which it goes...Patch

[Stone Cold Beagles]

If you want foot just look to your left or right and there it is. Speed is by far the easiest trait to aquire. If you want the tools to get the job done, then your search is definitly going to take quite a bit longer. Always start with a quality bitch first and take your time to find the male that is as close to what you are looking for in a dog and make your cross. Steve and My Beagles are right on track, but even with what looks like a full proof cross there's no guarantee's.

[Steve C.]

That's a good point too, SCB. I remember the first breeding I made of my good Mr T bitch to Ranger Dan. One is close to finishing, another won the Futurity and had other places in very limited trialing and the last one (only 3 in the litter) was placing regularly til an overzealous marshal tackled him in a trial. He never got over it. In short, an outstanding litter. I did the cross again the following year and got 7 pups- all of them very average. I've read where scientists believe most dogs to carry 30,000 to 45,000 different genes. When you consider the billions of different combinations that could result from the crossing of two individuals, it's a wonder we ever get what we're looking for. All you can do is a lot of homework and play the odds.

[Guest]

I agree with Patch, you can not have speed without nose and brains.
so are you really breeding speed alone or maybe just good nose and brain.

[WELLS WOODS]

From my limited experience with breeding beagles, I think it's impossible to predict what two parents will produce. I've seen the same cross made more than once ; one time get great hounds , next time get culls. What I call speed is how fast a hound can control the line in good scenting conditions( this would depend on its brains and nose more than its desire to run fast). I've seen hounds that looked fast in a pack, but put them down by themselves and they were only able to run medium speed no matter how good scent was; they just didn't have the ability to drive the line smoothly at a high speed without creating checks, thus slowing his progress. In my opinion as long as we keep breeding for desire, nose and brains along with good conformation, the speed(when needed) will always be there in the hounds worth keeping. A hound that can't or won't speed up when conditions allow is lacking ability; also a hound that can't or won't slow down when conditions demand is lacking ability. The good ones will adjust thier speed according to scenting conditions.

[Steve C.]

Greg, ever consider moving to Maine? We can always use another good judge around here.

[Robert W. Mccoy Jr]

Smooth is fast.