Kidney Disease

[dk steve]

Loat Hitman DS to Kidney Disease. He make two dogs that I had put down this year. The vet I took him to said he has never herd of it running in the line.I think it comes from what they eat and what they get into when out running. He did say that males get it more then females.

[CAINCUTTER]

I lost my best hound ever to kidney disease (Last November). I still can not beleive that she is gone. My vet seemed to think I may have been giving to much ivermect. I was using the standard 1/10 cc per 10 pounds. Based on his recomendation I have cut back to 1/10 cc per 15 pounds. The vet did not say this but I have been thinking that higher protein feed may put more stress on a hounds kidneys. I feed 21% Pro in the summer an 27% Pro during hunting season.

[Beagled1]

The vet did not say this but I have been thinking that higher protein feed may put more stress on a hounds kidneys. I feed 21% Pro in the summer an 27% Pro during hunting season.

High protein doesn't cause kidney failure ... it's actually the phosphorous that tags along with all high protein foods that must be flushed out through the kidneys. Excess levels can cause damage, and the best way to treat a dog in renal failure is to keep the phosphorous levels as low as possible. FWIW though, the culprit is not likely the phos damaging the kidneys of the Beagles that die of kidney problems at 4,5,6,7 yrs old. That's just mainly because the calcium:phosphorous ratio in most feeds being used for hunting Beagles are relatively low. For instance, almost all of Purina's formulas from Dog Chow to Pro Plan to Hi Pro are around 1.0:0.8 ... Normal cal:phos ratio for a dog should be closer to 1.1:1.0 ... The higher that ratio is, give a good indication of how meat based the feed it. Animal based proteins have higher levels of phos (basic rule of thumb is the higher protein a food has, the higher the phos level) while plant based ones (corn, soy, wheat, rice) contain much lowered levels.

The real problems are two things. First, the quality of the meats being used. Some brands use high quality meats and grains while others use suppliers that are selling diseased or otherwise old, low quality meats. You can't see quality on an ingredient list. But you can be sure that generic feeds and some name brand ones that sell high protein for low cost are using too many grains and not the best quality of meats either.

The other problem is that dogs are carniverous. They have the ability to eat and get nutrition from grains but they need amino acids from meat that cannot be found in any other source of protein. From their dentition to their digestive system, dogs are designed to eat meat. Dogs also need to have a certain pH level to their urine to keep their urinary system (urinary tract, bladder, kidneys) healthy. Ideal ueine pH level is approximately 6.5, which is considered moderately acidic. The only way any animal can regulate their urinary pH is by diet. No way around that fact. Meat produces acidity, while grains produce alkalinity. Mostly meat with some grains for dogs balances each other out and creates the moderate pH level. Cats, OTOH, who cannot derive nutrition from anything but meat/bones, have a strongly acidic urine because of their diet. FUS (feline urologic syndrome) on cats is known to be 110% diet related. Cats on dry food, especially fish based foods (fish is another urine alkalizer) are succeptable to it because of the amount of grain in the feed is lowering the acidity of the urine, and in turn causing them to take too much water from the lack of moisture in the feed - that dilutes the urine even further and causes kidney problems in the longrun.

What is happening to dogs on grain based diets is the same thing, basically. Their urine pH is way too alkaline from lack of meat. The dry food drives them to drink more water than nature intended, making the problem worse. An acidic urine kills off bacteria in the urinary tract, dissolves stones and crystals before they cause a problem. It is not possible for the urinary system to function normally with the wrong pH level.

[Beagled1]

The vet did not say this but I have been thinking that higher protein feed may put more stress on a hounds kidneys. I feed 21% Pro in the summer an 27% Pro during hunting season.

High protein doesn't cause kidney failure ... it's actually the phosphorous that tags along with all high protein foods that must be flushed out through the kidneys. Excess levels can cause damage, and the best way to treat a dog in renal failure is to keep the phosphorous levels as low as possible. FWIW though, the culprit is not likely the phos damaging the kidneys of the Beagles that die of kidney problems at 4,5,6,7 yrs old. That's just mainly because the calcium:phosphorous ratio in most feeds being used for hunting Beagles are relatively low. For instance, almost all of Purina's formulas from Dog Chow to Pro Plan to Hi Pro are around 1.0:0.8 ... Normal cal:phos ratio for a dog should be closer to 1.1:1.0 ... The higher that ratio is, give a good indication of how meat based the feed it. Animal based proteins have higher levels of phos (basic rule of thumb is the higher protein a food has, the higher the phos level) while plant based ones (corn, soy, wheat, rice) contain much lowered levels.

The real problems are two things. First, the quality of the meats being used. Some brands use high quality meats and grains while others use suppliers that are selling diseased or otherwise old, low quality meats. You can't see quality on an ingredient list. But you can be sure that generic feeds and some name brand ones that sell high protein for low cost are using too many grains and not the best quality of meats either. In addition to this, some popular feeds on here are preserved with chemicals such as BHA/BHT that are known to be carcinogens and to cause kidney damage in sufficient quantities! They are used in low levels in the food, but they are again flushed out throught the kidneys & liver, and can also build up and cause not only kidney problems but tumors.

The other problem is that dogs are carniverous. They have the ability to eat and get nutrition from grains but they need amino acids from meat that cannot be found in any other source of protein. From their dentition to their digestive system, dogs are designed to eat meat. Dogs also need to have a certain pH level to their urine to keep their urinary system (urinary tract, bladder, kidneys) healthy. Ideal ueine pH level is approximately 6.5, which is considered moderately acidic. The only way any animal can regulate their urinary pH is by diet. No way around that fact. Meat produces acidity, while grains produce alkalinity. Mostly meat with some grains for dogs balances each other out and creates the moderate pH level. Cats, OTOH, who cannot derive nutrition from anything but meat/bones, have a strongly acidic urine because of their diet. FUS (feline urologic syndrome) on cats is known to be 110% diet related. Cats on dry food, especially fish based foods (fish is another urine alkalizer) are succeptable to it because of the amount of grain in the feed is lowering the acidity of the urine, and in turn causing them to take too much water from the lack of moisture in the feed - that dilutes the urine even further and causes kidney problems in the longrun.

What is happening to dogs on grain based diets is the same thing, basically. Their urine pH is way too alkaline from lack of meat. The dry food drives them to drink more water than nature intended, making the problem worse. An acidic urine kills off bacteria in the urinary tract, dissolves stones and crystals before they cause a problem. It is not possible for the urinary system to function normally with the wrong pH level.