do all dogs have a hard time adjusting from hair to cottonta

[Jay Schrader]

Lots of great info and view points being shared.

I'll be the first to admit, NorWester that I watch the weather before making the trip north. Plus I get a report from my dad. If he's telling me you need snowshoes to get around and the running has been tough, I stay home. You guys up north have to figure out how to run on the toughest day. So I'll admit that I tend to make my comparisons on fair to excellent conditions.

I found the statement by Mike McPherson very interesting that on the worst conditions they can actually run cottontail better. Mike certainly has a lot of experience. I don't doubt that he's correct.

Probably the most frustrating running around where I live in southern Michigan is right after we get a few inches of snow. The cottontails all seems to run straight to a hole as soon as they are jumped. It takes a few days after a good snow for them to make some runways before they'll stay above ground for any amount of time.

NorWester, if you ever want to run both cottontail and hare in the same spot, come run with me in northern Michigan. I go every year for a few days between Christmas and New Years. The only thing I would ask is that you only bring one handful of shotgun shells and that you don't show the spots to anyone else. We would have a good time and I'm sure we would both learn a little.

[NorWester]

Jay, I'd love to make it down sometime to hunt/run. I'm sure it would be an education for me and my dogs and that's always a good thing in the end. I try to make it down into MN once or twice during the winter to run with some of the fellows there and thats always a good time too. We ran into some cottontails last season but couldn't do much with them or the hares THAT day Oh well......you know the saying, sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windshield

[Jay Schrader]

Here's a picture of myself, two of my four sons and our 13" females. This was taken December 31, 2006 in northern lower peninsula of Michigan. The hare were harvested from one of our spots that hold both hare and rabbits. The boys did all the shooting. Ryan got two and Steve got one that day. I usually don't even take my gun if they're going. I get more enjoyment watching the kids harvest game.

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

I believe how cottontails run depends a lot on the terrain you hunt them in. I'm in central Minnesota. Most of our cottontails live in small (less than 40 acres) covers. They generaly don't run very well. In snow they won't run much at all before going in a hole. I go down to central Iowa from time to time and their cottontails run a whole lot better than ours do. I have seen several cottontails runs that would do a hare proud.

I run hare about 80% of the time. When conditions are just right we get some of those days when the hare run big and fast. We also get lots of days when it is a struggle to keep one going at all. I have run lots of hare (usualy young ones) that just ran small circles and dove into a slash pile. Generaly speaking, hare run straighter and are easier to run than cottontails but there are plenty of exceptions. Also generaly speaking, scenting conditions for hunting (that's HUNTING during season) are much tougher on the average hare hunt than the average cottontail hunt. Again, there are plenty of exceptions.

Pike Ridge, the first thing I breed for is nose. I don't keep any mouthy dogs, I don't see where the two are connected. I also don't have a lot of "hare blood" in my dogs, probably less than many of you.

I once owned a really nice hound with too much nose experimenting with Cottontail SPO/LP Hare crosses. Great in tough scenting conditions but tended to bark early on frosty mornings, occasionally a little mouthy in the check area and didn't seem to reach out enough for my tastes, etc. Many guys love this style hound and there is nothing wrong with them if that is the style that pleases you (collectively). To each his/her own for sure. These type dogs will occasionally start or save a race for sure when other dogs struggle.
When my dogs bark they better have a rabbit going right now and be exploding on the line. If you get one with a BIG nose and honest mouth then you have something. That is what I look for...nose with brains. If you can put the two together in a cross then stay with that line. You're heading in the correct direction in my opinion.
Aside from scenting conditions, I would think that hare leave considerably more scent than a cottontail.

[Hare Hunter]

Well here's my 2 cents. I live in the U.P. of Mich. where all we have here to run is hare. I have very little experience with cottontails. That being said after reading all the way through this thread I need to get better dogs, we do have many days out of the year where they can run pretty much check free but I would say less then 10% of the time, hard driving hounds will have checks on hare but they should be of short duration, if they don't swing and cheat, checks generally last less then 10 seconds, but there are many times when they last longer and occasional losses happen. I will tell you this that I know as fact! The more tired the dogs get the more checks there will be, the other thing is if you don't think an older experienced hare don't do some doubling back and other tricks then you haven't run very many. Good reading, hope this keeps going for awhile. Hare

[Boomerx]

I don't run any cottontail now, but I used to run more cottontail than I did hare. In the early days of small pack on cottontail here in Canada when our hare beaglers competed in that format, we used to pray our hare hounds would be drawn to go down in the middle of the afternoon, because the scent wouldn't be so strong, and our hounds wouldn't drive as fast. They'd pick and work when they had to, and I found most often they'd outnose and outrun the brace or cottontail hounds they were packed with. If they went down on the dew in the early morning, they'd drive too hard and often would not get picked for the winners pack. I won the very first sm. pk on cottontail in Canada with my hare FTCH Winterborne Boomerang. I more recently loaned my FTCH McBride's lucky Jade (who'd never seen a cottontail) to John Dobson (who finished Branko's Dutch Weifke, Dobson's Pet and others) to gun over one winter when she was a year old. He phoned me after a week to tell me he'd shot 23 cottontail over her in the first 3 days and now was just taking her out to run against his friends cottontail hounds to show them how a "hare" hound could handle a cottontail. I got her back and she finished quickly on hare. A really good hound will adapt. Terry McBride

[Duke]

Northwester,
Thanks for the offer, I would have to drive quite a bit further, and we are on hare big time where we go now, but I would welcome you to join us. But I cant say where here, I know why guys protect their really good hare spots now. Some groups go up to shoot as many as they can and 50 to 60 hare is too many, for my liking. Just something I dont wanna do. Like to hear em run.

Earl showed me what really well conditioned hare hounds can do. He has some very nice hounds and showed us a couple of places. He is a really great houndsman. We dont go to his neck of the woods anymore, but it was fun meeting him. Our last day there most of our hounds were shot and they were strung out all over the swamp. We have learned to bring a lot more hounds and rotate them. The thing I like is there are not as many stickers and stuff to tear a hound up where we go and hounds can really get conditioned.

[NorWester]

I hear ya, it's unfortunate that to make a reasonable drive these days will cost a month's mortage payment in gas Not near the pressure for finding spots up this way, I'm the only one I know of around here with hounds and last season I only took 3 hare

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Very informative post, guess its all about the dogs after all.Terry you always seem to catch my attention and make me read into your post...Quick question is there a particular line that accells on hare to cottaintail ? Did you ever see kingwoods t-rex back in his day? I ask just because i wonder if he could have finished in todays hounds.

[Boomerx]

I believe there are a lot of hare bloodlines that could do well on cottontail, but they'd be the lines that tend to produce smoother running hounds rather than the wind-splitter types. Hounds like Cowbay Striker could do a real number on a cottontail or hare. I do remember watching Mountineer King run cottontail with Sugar River Sweet Magnolia and Thiesen's Den-Rod Smokey (not sure of the spelling of Smokey's name) They all ran well enough to win trials that day, and although King was older than the other two, he caught both other hounds many times just a bit out of position and he capitalized on it by grabbing the check. Pretty soon, he was leading them round and round, as they seemed to know who was boss. I've never seen T-Rex run but I've seen his sire many times (Kingwood's Shorty) and Shorty wasn't the type that could have handled a small pack on cottontail successfully (in my opinion). Shorty was very fast, but tight with his mouth, and that's a big strike against you in a small pack on cottontail. I ran Branko's Heli-Prop in LPH trials against Shorty, and Shorty had more foot speed than Prop, but with the pressure Prop put on him from behind, he'd tighten up more and sometimes get dumped. I must admit, I was always very relieved to see Shorty come out on the end of a marshals lead, because if there was anyone in the trial who could beat Prop on a given day, it would be Shorty. Now if Rex took after his dam, Otterun Joy, he'd be much more sucessful in small pack on cottontail, as Joy was out of one of the best, smootest running bitches I've ever watched, Kingwood's Stormey Day, and The Elm's Jig's Maggies Mate, who although very quick, was still a pretty good line running hound.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

As always Terry,a very astute observation of the hound's abilities.I love when people will accurately describe the hounds instead of sniping at what they personally like or don't like.
The beagle breed and each of us will all benifit.
Thanks Terry
Dana Robinson

[MasonsBeagles]

Boomerx once again you have shown to be the enlightened one.

Thanks for sharing.

[RiverBottom]

I run both hare and cottontails with the same hounds. I don't field trial at all. I have a hard time relating to what Boomer is saying. From my perspective, the best hounds I have seen for running hare to the gun day in and day out in all conditions are also the ones the work best for running cottontails to the gun. If they can't do both equaly well it is because of something they are doing wrong.

I have had the best luck with fast dogs. Not the popular large pack hare bloodlines, I would guess the kind I like would run best in UKC or ARHA LP. Lots of speed, together with plenty of nose and good line control will kill a lot of rabbits, both cottontails and hare, in all conditions.

The more conservative "smooth running" type, while very good on cottontails don't do as well on hare when conditions get real bad. They tend to slow down which leaves them farther behind the hare, until they get to the point where they run out of scent.

[ron simmons]

I just got my hound back from newyork last week had him out twice and he looked lost he was started on cottontail and had never ran hare before i sent him up there .Now he acts like he does not know what to do will this change with more field time.

[Ed Brown]

Last year I took an 18 month old hound to WV. He was started on hare in Vt and it took only a few minutes and he was running cottontail. Just my limited experience.