you make the call...my deer chase from the nats

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

[quote="Blu Tick Beagler"]I wasn't trying to make anyone look like a liar. I was just trying to clear up how it should be ruled on.. Even after the entire post you wrote above... Still only one questions matters.. "Judge, Do you feel this hound ran a deer?" He said "No" ..Protest over..[/quote


Danny, Mental note to self~~~~~~~~Unless a judge commits a rule violation, the moh will go with there call most of the time----Judgement calls are just that, 1 mans opinion.....

Paul i have never thought about using a timeout -time in call like you have described, pretty sweet. I still after reading every post dont understand 1 thing. You can not KINDA run deer or not. If the dog checks the pack and returns in a timely matter and or goes to hunting and does not come back to my feet. Then how could i scratch him? I sorta see what vansickles -itch is but i was not there and its over. Here is something that happened to me some years ago tell me what you would of done. Dog a goes into the briars and is getting ready to get a jump as i could tell dog b dont seem that interested in hunting , dog a jumps a rabbit we see
3 rabbits come out of the briars pretty much at the same time. Dog b works the track and a is working but for what ever reason they can not work it out. Dog a recieves a minus after 3 mins . Right call, i never said a word just seems sorta strange (we saw the rabbits) . I aint complaining thats life , i still never understood the call.

[Tboy]

I hate to get into these types of post, but I do feel a little obligated since I was there. First off Paul is right on with his call the judge does not feel like the 3rd dog was running it then questioning is over, you go with the judge. As I hate to say this, but Danny has MOST of his fact straight on this on. I will tell you guys what I seen.

Danny's dog was pounding a deer and Danny was just back there a counting those checks lol, just thought I would throw that in . The judge was walking back to us in the gallery, and I made the commit that this is no good, so I ran up to him, he asked me if i owned orange collar dog I said I did he said he is scratch for running deer, he also told me that he did come back to him twice before going out a third time a laying in on the chase, so I took of after them. The 3rd dogs owner/handler went with me. We was yelling very aggressivly for the dogs and was running across a big dam to get to the dogs. I can not or will not say how many dogs I heard barking, since I was worried about getting my dog back. After yelling for several minutes (Not sure exactly) 3rd dog came back and mine and Danny's dog kept going (maybe more heart lol). The 3rd owner/handler made the commit to his dog "you know better then to go with them" and scolded him pretty good. Now this is were it gets tricky and if you was not on that dam looking for the dogs you would not know this, the 3rd dogs owner/handler said this after I asked if he got scratch also, seeing that his dog came back he said "my dog ran across the frozen lake to get to them" so the judge never seen the 3rd dog in there. In my opinion the 3rd dog was doing more then just checking in and he never went back to the judge, but we did get pretty close to the dog and he was able to yell for him away from there. We was a pretty long ways away from the gallery and judge, so it would take him a little while to get back. Now was this dog running the deer not totally sure and its not my call to say so. I went on to try and get the dogs.

I do Judge and I do know this: you chase after them dog and you have determined which one or ones are running off game, you call dead track or time out, you are not still judging at that time you are trying to catch your breath and regroup it does not say the dogs have to go back to the handlers they can keep hunting, so having said this the judge was out of breath when I got there and if the 3rd dog did go across the frozen lake to get to the 2 dogs running, the judge never seen him, so he made the right call, he did not see the 3rd dog going to the other dogs and did not feel like he was running the deer Paul is absolutly right in his judgement to go with the judge. Danny is also right with MOST of his facts, but this was a judgement call on the judge as to what HE SEEN not the gallery.

I look at it like this, my dog was scratched for deer at that time I don't care who won the cast I do know it was not mine or Danny's dog. agruing over who should or shouldn't have won when you don't have a dog in the race is useless and a waste of breath. I truly understand both sides of this post and this is all I'm saying on this matter, because it doesn't matter and if we keep this up we will only become "matter".

[taylorskennels]

I may be wrong for saying this because i'm not 100% sure i'm correct.I've seen the dog in question was gone by dannys account for 18 min and by the judge's account 12 min.Isn't there a 10 min rule in the rule book to retrieve dogs in a time out?Just courious i know i've been scratched for it

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

No its a judgement call.Usally a good deer race is gone out of hearing 10 mins later anyway.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

I wasn't trying to make anyone look like a liar. I was just trying to clear up how it should be ruled on.. Even after the entire post you wrote above... Still only one questions matters.. "Judge, Do you feel this hound ran a deer?" He said "No" ..Protest over..[/quote


Danny, Mental note to self~~~~~~~~Unless a judge commits a rule violation, the moh will go with there call most of the time----Judgement calls are just that, 1 mans opinion.....

Paul i have never thought about using a timeout -time in call like you have described, pretty sweet. I still after reading every post dont understand 1 thing. You can not KINDA run deer or not. If the dog checks the pack and returns in a timely matter and or goes to hunting and does not come back to my feet. Then how could i scratch him? I sorta see what vansickles -itch is but i was not there and its over. Here is something that happened to me some years ago tell me what you would of done. Dog a goes into the briars and is getting ready to get a jump as i could tell dog b dont seem that interested in hunting , dog a jumps a rabbit we see
3 rabbits come out of the briars pretty much at the same time. Dog b works the track and a is working but for what ever reason they can not work it out. Dog a recieves a minus after 3 mins . Right call, i never said a word just seems sorta strange (we saw the rabbits) . I aint complaining thats life , i still never understood the call.

With all these judges nobody cant answer my question?

[SilverZuk]

What is your question?

[taylorskennels]

MVK should've been jump strike on dog A if i was judging the presence of the dog produced a rabbit just my opinion.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Thats what i thought

[danny vansickle]

I hate to get into these types of post, but I do feel a little obligated since I was there. First off Paul is right on with his call the judge does not feel like the 3rd dog was running it then questioning is over, you go with the judge. As I hate to say this, but Danny has MOST of his fact straight on this on. I will tell you guys what I seen.

Danny's dog was pounding a deer and Danny was just back there a counting those checks lol, just thought I would throw that in . The judge was walking back to us in the gallery, and I made the commit that this is no good, so I ran up to him, he asked me if i owned orange collar dog I said I did he said he is scratch for running deer, he also told me that he did come back to him twice before going out a third time a laying in on the chase, so I took of after them. The 3rd dogs owner/handler went with me. We was yelling very aggressivly for the dogs and was running across a big dam to get to the dogs. I can not or will not say how many dogs I heard barking, since I was worried about getting my dog back. After yelling for several minutes (Not sure exactly) 3rd dog came back and mine and Danny's dog kept going (maybe more heart lol). The 3rd owner/handler made the commit to his dog "you know better then to go with them" and scolded him pretty good. Now this is were it gets tricky and if you was not on that dam looking for the dogs you would not know this, the 3rd dogs owner/handler said this after I asked if he got scratch also, seeing that his dog came back he said "my dog ran across the frozen lake to get to them" so the judge never seen the 3rd dog in there. In my opinion the 3rd dog was doing more then just checking in and he never went back to the judge, but we did get pretty close to the dog and he was able to yell for him away from there. We was a pretty long ways away from the gallery and judge, so it would take him a little while to get back. Now was this dog running the deer not totally sure and its not my call to say so. I went on to try and get the dogs.

I do Judge and I do know this: you chase after them dog and you have determined which one or ones are running off game, you call dead track or time out, you are not still judging at that time you are trying to catch your breath and regroup it does not say the dogs have to go back to the handlers they can keep hunting, so having said this the judge was out of breath when I got there and if the 3rd dog did go across the frozen lake to get to the 2 dogs running, the judge never seen him, so he made the right call, he did not see the 3rd dog going to the other dogs and did not feel like he was running the deer Paul is absolutly right in his judgement to go with the judge. Danny is also right with MOST of his facts, but this was a judgement call on the judge as to what HE SEEN not the gallery.

I look at it like this, my dog was scratched for deer at that time I don't care who won the cast I do know it was not mine or Danny's dog. agruing over who should or shouldn't have won when you don't have a dog in the race is useless and a waste of breath. I truly understand both sides of this post and this is all I'm saying on this matter, because it doesn't matter and if we keep this up we will only become "matter".

thank you tim..........

like he just said,the third dog NEVER came back to check in,it did go with the dogs,and obviously,by the comment the third owner said about goin with them when scolding him,he even felt he went.

the dog went,it was gone 18 minutes,that is when we saw him walking across the dam with him,when the owner got back,the judge asked him,do you feel that he went?

of course the owner said no,so,he allowed it to continue

the dog went,sammy wells and kevin shackert took one in the rear on that cast.

if he was so sure that the dog did not run it when talking to the moh,why did he have to ask the owner,why was he standin there scratchin his head tryin to figure out what to do about the third dog for 18 minutes,if he honestly felt it didnt go,he had his 10 minutes to get the dog back,go on with the cast,and keep the dog active.

i guess this is one of them things ya chalk up to innexperience,sad thing was,there was a lot of casts that guys had to chalk it up to innexperience

[flash]

[quote="danny vansickle"]f he was so sure that the dog did not run it when talking to the moh,why did he have to ask the owner,why was he standin there scratchin his head tryin to figure out what to do about the third dog for 18 minutes,if he honestly felt it didnt go,he had his 10 minutes to get the dog back,go on with the cast,and keep the dog active.
[/quote]



Danny that 18 minutes aint sheeeeeet they waited 45 minutes for a handler to catch his dog . the dog ended up winnig the cast and 2nd in the hunt . Shoulda , coulda been my dog .

[Buckeye Bob]

You know what guys,we are talking about judgement calls here.The human element.I am down to one dog and haven't run him for 2 months but was still tempted to make it to the Nationals with no dog but just to judge because I truly enjoy doing it.I still get on here and read the scenarios and there are some good ones.Flash,I don't know you and kept it at a pm level till now but if you want me to list Todd's side detail for detail and let true houndsmen decide for themselves who to believe I can and will.You cannot have it both ways buddy.

[flash]

Bob I was there you wasn't if you think you need to express your opinion do like the bottom of my page says BRING IT ON.I know what happened the other cast members know what happened when I spoke with one of the judges later he knew which dog deserved to go on (not the one that did )he said if it was to do over that we would probably have moved on .

[Buckeye Bob]

Yes ,you are right.I was not there.As I can tell there were just handlers and judges on that cast so what we have here are 2 sides of a story that are so different that one has to choose who to believe.After thinking about it I have reconsidered and feel I owe you an apology.I am deeply sorry I kept up with this story on a public forum and tried to defend a friend of mine by stooping down to the level of the attacker.Todd has called you,I have pm'ed you.I'm done.RIP