COLDTRAILIN

[beaglebill]

I have a friend that asked me to see if any of you guys had any luck trying to eliminate a dog from coldtrailin. He has a young dog that is doing some real good things other than this. I think he has been giving her a signal with the noise feature on his ecollar. He is about to eliminate her. She is not real bad but any at all is not good, right.

[B.Trull]

I know a guy who will shock his young dogs some while they are doing this. Personally I would never do that. I just got rid of all my hounds that cold trailed and went to hotter nose , faster lines of hounds that arent known for this and only bark when the line is close and hot. I am not sure how this has worked for him ?

[Steve C.]

This is another topic that has no easy answers. Obviously, cold trailing as a rule is a problem, but there are many days when scent comes hard that I'll tolerate some cold trailing- provided it turns into a RUN. The best answer I can give is that if you become aggravated with it on a regular basis, this dog will never please you. Ordinarily on a frosty morning I'll allow 5 minutes or so til the game is jumped; given that there are plenty of rabbits in the area. Yesterday I ran dogs early in the morning while the frost was heavy on the ground. Game was scarce and I listened to my best dog pick at an old line for some time. She wasn't just stuck in one place but continued to work the old line for nearly an hour while covering probably 15 acres. If this was the first time I'd seen this dog, I wouldn't have been pleased with this, but she is not ordinarily one to use her mouth out of place. She eventually jumped the hare and four hours later was still running the same hare- maybe the only one in a 50 acre woods. Three other dogs with her- none opened til the hare was jumped. Would the other three have found this hare on there own without wasting all this time? Maybe, but I doubt it. He was laid up in a patch of swale grass (white hare on bare ground) and wasn't about to move til something kicked him out. I doubt very much there's any way of correcting your dog from cold trailing- this is a trait bred into the dog. If he's still young and inexperienced there's always the chance that he'll improve but this is one of those things that tends to get worse rather than better. Keep in mind that there are those people who don't mind cold trailing so there's always a market for a dog like this. In places where game is scarce and conditions (deep snow and extreme cold) make for very tough scenting a lot of folks will accept cold trailing. A friend of mine has a dog that a few times every year looks like a million bucks, but the rest of the time he barks all over the woods.

[beaglebill]

Most i have seen get worse with age. Why i have no idea.

[Bob Wiest]

Hi Bill, I'd like to comment on your statement that any coldtrailing is bad. Now I'm not trying to tell anybody what their dogs should do, but for me, I need a dog to cold trail every now and then. Just as Steve desrcibed in his post. I also have for the most part successfully broken dogs from what I would call bad cold trailing. In my book bad coldtrailing, is when a dog isn't making forward progress, or conditions are such that cold trailing is unnecesary. I want my dogs to run rabbits every time I turn them loose and don't give one hoot about what some trail judge thinks. So I guess what it comes down to is what you're willing to put up with, and how much you know about the line of dogs that pup came from. Some dogs with big noses need time to learn how to use them, and instruction for a handeler on what is acceptable. Good running Bob

[Chris]

I want my dogs to run rabbits every time I turn them loose and don't give one hoot about what some trail judge thinks. So I guess what it comes down to is what you're willing to put up with...

Some dogs with big noses need time to learn how to use them

Nice to hear from a rabbit hunter that knows what's what.

Cold trailing can be a pain, but if a dog has the nose it's going to happen occasionally. There's a big difference between cold trailing and babbling. A babbler (doesn't consistently produce) is useless; while a good, cold-nosed dog is a real asset while bunny hunting when conditions are tough -- and let's face it, conditions during the middle of rabbit season can be a whole lot tougher than they are during the good months of trial season.

[DarrinG]

I think Chris touched on an important factor of the subject of cold-trailing: Tough Conditions.

Up in the wild north, where snow is a common thing to be hunting in, very cold temps and crusty, hard snow that has packed for weeks, one would probably want and NEED a dog that could and would trail up cold tracks. Now I have never hunted in places like MI, NH, VT etc, but I can see where this may be a necessity.

However, hunting in the south (places like GA, SC, TN, AL, etc) I dont believe one needs a dog that trails that excessively, based in the conditions. No snow pack, below zero temps, etc, down here and bunny scent will hold a little better. I dont like a cold trailer down here..scenting conditions (on average) are not that bad as could be up north. An excessive cold-trailer will get culled quick at my place, just no need for it here.....but up north...maybe so!

[beaglebill]

I think a babbler is the same as a cold trailor in this area but i also agree with Darin i have never hunted up north. A dog that continues to open up but very seldom produces a rabbit it just screws the other dogs up becomes quite a problem. Since i have visited this web site i have noticed folks from up north continue to talk about the nose on a dog. I seem to think more people in this area seem to be interested in dogs with search or jump ability and they all hate a babblin or cold trailin dog. Naturally the weather and habitat makes a big difference.

[dk steve]

I had a dog that would bark to early all the time when I first got her. Now when she barks it is a hot line. All of a sudden she just quit cold trailing. I think it was because the other dogs in the pack quit honoring her when she opened up. I would give a dog a lot of time to straighten out before I got rid of it. That is the bad thing about trialing the mouthy dogs get scored a lot and the dog that really gets the rabbit up gets nuthing. I seen it happen many times when you cast the dogs in a place with lots of rabbits. I don`t think it is to bad if the dog at least stays in the same area it opened up in and trys to work out the line, but I hate a babbling dog that just runs through the woods barking.

[bob huffman]

Some of the best posts I have read on this board. When rabbits are scarce and railing is tough, they have to be able to work a cold bad track to put any game in the pot!!! Bring those hot nosed dogs up here in the morning and you won't get any rabbits. It will be 15 degrees and dry. I don't like a dog that has to carry his running conditions with him to produce game. Those are hobby hounds and not serious hunting dogs.

[Little Dog]

Bill, I've personally seen one dog that was a bad babbler cut way back by the collar. This guy stuck with him and started to hit him every time he did it. I really would have thought he would have broke the dog off of rabbits, but I'd bet 9 out of 10 times it would not have worked. He had a lot in the dog and figured he was going to break it or ruin it. He was lucky he broke it, but I will say the dog still could not be called hot nosed.

How he did it is common sense: he took the coldnoser out with his hottest nose dog and stayed with him constantly before the race started. He also tried to keep the other hot nosed dog close by. If the hot nosed dog was there and not giving mouth he hit the babbler lightly with the collar and yelled at him. NOW, once the race was up and going he never gave him any corrections, only before. He said it did not take too long. I'll say it again -- he was lucky.

The dog could jump and run a rabbit with style, so I see why he wanted to at least try. It was his last hope because he would ponder and babble before.

[Buckeye Bob]

I have a big nosed female that can look so good if she is able to jump the rabbit soon after opening but can look insane if she does'nt and it's getting progressively worse.I've started to hit her with a medium jolt when I know she is cold trailing and yell HUSH and then ignore her when bunny is up.I am about to dispair over this bitch because she produces 80 to90% of the bunnies and I can't replace that.I always said I could handle a coldtrailer until I saw first hand how it can disrupt a pack,pulling all the other dogs in when they all should be working independently until rabbit is up.By the way,I'm looking for a bignosed bitch that runs an accurate line with no losses and at above average speed,must have perfect mouth and be a brush/jumpdog deluxe,show stopper conformation and throws 8 pups at a time with the majority being females.Ability to read posted property a plus.Will pay good money....up to $200!!!

[B.Trull]

Many excellent posts. My coldtrailin hounds werent producing many rabbits and were agravating the pi## out of me. I had one real tight bred stubby dog thast wasnt that bad his first season, but the second he got worse and started not handling to boot. I just would not rather here anything till the rabbit is jumped and a race is engauged than ten minutes of barking and no bunny running scared. Tighter mouths dont bother me as much as long as the cheatin on the line is minimal, than lots of coldtrailin and babbling in the check areas.

[Steve C.]

I wouldn't say that most of us here in the north prefer a cold nosed hound or look for a cold trailer; rather we'll tolerate some of it on a bad day if the dog has the nose required to run in below zero weather on dry snow. Here on the coast of Maine we don't get the extreme cold that they get inland- most years 20 to 25 below is the worst we see. However we get freeze/ thaw cycles that leave a crust on the snow that makes scenting about the same as trying to lift it off a paved parking lot. Big nose is a must and many days it is the only thing that counts. So we put up with a bit of improper use of mouth if we're getting results. But I would guess that a majority of the time, big nose will come with a lot of excess baggage like cold trailing, babbling, anchoring and backtracking. All of these, if the dog persists, lead to lost game. A dog who can run a track on the worst of conditions yet uses it's mouth properly is a relatively rare thing and money can't buy such a hound. I've been fortunate enough to own a few but culled a LOT of others. These hounds who are able to run a hare 95% of the time and ACCOUNT for game will live out their lives here and have a place of honor high above the Field Champion title.

[laal]

If the dog can't run the rabbit it should not bark! I like a big nose. but the dog needs a big brain to go with the nose. I don't worry about a dog that ask for help when it has been working for a while. But opening on a cold trail is a fault. (my opinion)