how important is glucosamine/chondroitan, how much is needed
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
how important is glucosamine/chondroitan, how much is needed
my dogs seem to be doing very well on a mix of black gold 26/18 and diamond ultra 30/20. five parts black gold to one part diamond. now why am i going through all the trouble to mix them???? because the diamond ultra has glucosamine/chondroiton, as well as flax seed oil, omega 6 and omega 3 fats and i am thinking that this is good for the dogs. now at a five to one mix i know that they aren't getting very much,, and my question is how much chondroiton and glucosamine do older dogs need for it to make a difference in their joints and all??? i have one large dog and one old dog and i think these two in particular need these type of supplements,,, however i am sure that it can't hurt even the young ones,,, as i am sure that a few hours of running through the briars after days of inactivity in the kennel must be tough on their legs and joints. does anyone know how much of these substances is needed to make a difference in a dog's life??
There's nothing that conclusive about glucosamine and chondroitin supplements. We give it to two of our dogs that have shown the potential for joint problems, and I've even taken it before. Over the months when I was taking it, I couldn't be sure whether or not it made a difference, and the doctor who tried to help me with tendonitis in my knee said taking glucosamine and chondroitin didn't do squat. I've seen various articles that say either of them helps, or that they only help in certain forms, or that they only help if they're both present, or that they only help if they also have MSM (methylsulfonylmethane) present, etc. So opinions vary widely even among the people who say the supplements do help.
You'll usually find pills with 250-750 mg of a glucosamine compound (usually glucosamine sulfate or glucosamine HCl) and 250-750 mg of chondroitin sulfate. The less per pill, the more pills you have to take.
We give "Osteo Bi-flex Plus MSM," which is 375 mg glucosamine HCl, 300 mg chondroitin sulfate, and 250 mg MSM per tablet. The human serving size is 4 tablets daily. For our dogs, we gave 2 daily for the first month and one daily after that, which was from our vet's advice. I was about 180 lbs when I was taking them, so 4 pills per 180 lbs would be about 2/3rds of a pill for a 30 lb dog, which would be 250 mg glucosamine HCl and 200 mg chondroitin sulfate looking at it that way.
Diamond Ultra ("Professional Formula for Dogs?" It's the only one I saw on their website that I saw with glucosamine and chondroitin) lists 300 mg/kg glucosamine HCl and 100 mg/kg chondroitin sulfate. It looks like there are 10.7 cups per kg (website says 3,913 kcals/kg=366 kcals/cup), and the recommended feeding for a 25 lb dog is about 1.5 cups/day. So if you only fed the Ultra, your dogs would get 0.14 kg of food/day, which has about 52 mg of glucosamine HCl and 14 mg of chondroitin sulfate. And if you're feeding 5 parts another food to 1 part Diamond Ultra, then they're only getting about 10 mg glucosamine HCl and 2-3 mg of chondroitin sulfate. I don't think this will do much good. That's just a few percent of what ours get in supplements, if I've done the math right. Even if glucosamine and chondroitin do work, it sounds like you're using much lower than recommended levels.
This website recommends pretty close to what we give when you adjust their dosage for weight
http://www.ivillage.com/pets/print/0,,272294,00.html
"...a starting dose of 1,000 to 1,500 mg of glucosamine with 800 to 1,200 mg of chondroitin is recommended per day for a 50- to 100-pound dog. This dose is then lowered after 4 to 8 weeks..."
You'll usually find pills with 250-750 mg of a glucosamine compound (usually glucosamine sulfate or glucosamine HCl) and 250-750 mg of chondroitin sulfate. The less per pill, the more pills you have to take.
We give "Osteo Bi-flex Plus MSM," which is 375 mg glucosamine HCl, 300 mg chondroitin sulfate, and 250 mg MSM per tablet. The human serving size is 4 tablets daily. For our dogs, we gave 2 daily for the first month and one daily after that, which was from our vet's advice. I was about 180 lbs when I was taking them, so 4 pills per 180 lbs would be about 2/3rds of a pill for a 30 lb dog, which would be 250 mg glucosamine HCl and 200 mg chondroitin sulfate looking at it that way.
Diamond Ultra ("Professional Formula for Dogs?" It's the only one I saw on their website that I saw with glucosamine and chondroitin) lists 300 mg/kg glucosamine HCl and 100 mg/kg chondroitin sulfate. It looks like there are 10.7 cups per kg (website says 3,913 kcals/kg=366 kcals/cup), and the recommended feeding for a 25 lb dog is about 1.5 cups/day. So if you only fed the Ultra, your dogs would get 0.14 kg of food/day, which has about 52 mg of glucosamine HCl and 14 mg of chondroitin sulfate. And if you're feeding 5 parts another food to 1 part Diamond Ultra, then they're only getting about 10 mg glucosamine HCl and 2-3 mg of chondroitin sulfate. I don't think this will do much good. That's just a few percent of what ours get in supplements, if I've done the math right. Even if glucosamine and chondroitin do work, it sounds like you're using much lower than recommended levels.
This website recommends pretty close to what we give when you adjust their dosage for weight
http://www.ivillage.com/pets/print/0,,272294,00.html
"...a starting dose of 1,000 to 1,500 mg of glucosamine with 800 to 1,200 mg of chondroitin is recommended per day for a 50- to 100-pound dog. This dose is then lowered after 4 to 8 weeks..."
Boomer, you are an animal! That was like reading a text book. That must have taken some serious time. Well, at least we are all versed up on the use of those supliments. 
Seriously, that was informative.
Thanks,
Emery
Seriously, that was informative.
Thanks,
Emery
Be ye kind one unto another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Ephesians 4:32
indeed that was informative,,, wow,,,
boomer,,, where do you get your supplements and how much do they cost,,, what are you spending per dog per day to give them this supplement??? i have two dogs,, one senior citizen beagle (best dang dog in the kennel) and one labrador who i would like to supplement with glucosomine and chondroiton.
thanx so much for the information
boomer,,, where do you get your supplements and how much do they cost,,, what are you spending per dog per day to give them this supplement??? i have two dogs,, one senior citizen beagle (best dang dog in the kennel) and one labrador who i would like to supplement with glucosomine and chondroiton.
thanx so much for the information
The Osteo bi-Flex Plus MSM stuff we buy can be found at drug stores, Kroger, internet, etc. The regular price is supposed to be like $30-35 for 120 tablets, but around here it is usually on sale for $20-25, or is buy 2 get one free, etc. We buy the tablets that also have MSM in it, but if you just want to try only glucosamine and chondroitin tablets, you can probably save a few bucks. And if you just always buy the brand that is on sale, you can save a few more bucks. You could save a little more money buying more concentrated tablets (double-strength, triple-strength, etc), but then you'd have to split the tablets up to get the dosage appropriate for a small dog. We stick with this brand because we usually find it on sale, the dosage is about right, and it also doesn't have a certain type of coating (I can't remember the name) that makes some pills very difficult to dissolve and absorb in the body.
If you do two pills daily for the first month or two, it will cost a little more. But when you're at one pill daily, it comes out to be about $0.25 per dog each day. It's pretty cheap for a dog or two, but if you supplement a whole pack, it all adds up.
If you do two pills daily for the first month or two, it will cost a little more. But when you're at one pill daily, it comes out to be about $0.25 per dog each day. It's pretty cheap for a dog or two, but if you supplement a whole pack, it all adds up.