Read This (Not about Dogs)

[Jr Walker]

btw the way i see it the reason schools might not be funded is not that taxes are not high e-nuff...its the fact money is pocketed or spent in places that it's not needed...example-a truck that drives on the side of a high way watching workers pick up trash doesnt need to be a 2007 that costed a arm and a leg and they dont work people that are in jail they rather hire someone to do it other than useing what they have and make them do something...maybe most of the people comming right out of jail wouldnt be saying jail is just another place to lay down and goto sleep at like mostly all say...and the death sentence is funny if u think about it. . . . .they dont want them to hurt and just let them goto sleep and not wake up but yet the person they killed was in plenty of pain so why shouldnt they get the same pain or worse than the person they killed

[DRamey]

Tim, I am 47 years old and am in the middle of a career change. I retired from industrial sales in order to enter into the public education system. Before going into this headfirst, I spent 3 years as a substitute teacher and a mathematics tutor. I can only speak for the public education system in eastern Kentucky and I will avoid your mistake in making broad, generalized statements. I am going in to the education system to make a difference. The three years I spent at a local high school I did make a difference. Students learned very quickly who I am and what I stand for, and many sought me out to pray for and with them for whatever diffiulty they were having in life. I observed that the number one main problem with public education is the quality of student that parents send to school. When parents send their children to school to have them "babysat," there is a problem. There would be no problem if they would allow the teachers to discipline them as the parents should have been doing all along, but as soon as the child goes home whining that some imagined injustice was done, (remember that this is firsthand observation) the parent shows up at school to tell the teacher how incompetent he/she is, all the while living in denial about what a horrible parent he/she actually is in failing to instill discipline and morals, sending the child to school and expecting a teacher to teach the child what the parent is responsible for, all the while choosing to take the path of least resistance with the child. Don't talk to me about how the education system is a failure, because I will tell you that it breaks down at the breakfast table before children ever make contact with the teachers. My son is a 4th grader, all-star baseball player, member of the achool's academic team for 2 years (they put him on the 4th-6th grade academic tema in 3rd grade). He has his own bulletin board at school honoring him for academic achievement, and when he comes home with an attitude, I adjust it with a keen willow switch. I respect Tim's right to home school his children, as we all have that right. I also attend classes with several students that are in the Pikeville College School of Osteopathic Medicine who were "victims" of the public school system. You get out of it what you put in it. Broad statements only apply in some situations, don't try to make all public education a "cookie cutter" failure. The teachers that I have worked with work hard under increasingly difficult circumstances due to liberal ideals and lack of family values. They are also paid less compared to the degree of educational achievement of all professions. Most would never do anything else because the reward is much less financial than it is satisfaction in seeing a difference being made in a young life. I am not becoming a teacher to get through to the ones who will rebel for their entire lives, I am becoming a teacher to get through to the ones that I can help discover that life can be better. One is better than none. Don't condemn, do something about it.

[Tim H]

DRamey,
You first said this,

I will avoid your mistake in making broad, generalized statements.

Then you say this,

I observed that the number one main problem with public education is the quality of student that parents send to school.

Is that not a generalization?

Generalizations are sometimes the most effective way to communicate about a broad subject. We are talking about a national issue, can we really discuss this on individual experiences and still get a broad view of where the problems are?

Anecdotal evidence can help clarify some issues but they rarely can be applied accurately to a large issue. Your generalization about parents is just not accurate in the area I am in, it is quite the opposite. That doesn't invalidate your point but it needs to be looked at in a broader picture to see if it is indeed an accurate view of the larger problem.

I would also like to address the assumption that if someone is shedding light on this issue that they must not be involved enough and need to step up. I assure you I am involved and want to be an agent of change. That is more difficult when the people within the system that can have the most influence deny there is a problem. There standard answer is they need more money. From 2001-2005 the education budget was raised by $14.4 BILLION. That is just the amount it was raised, the actual budget in 2001 $42.2 BILLION and in 2005 $56.6 BILLION. If managed properly that is more than enough to run a top notch education system.

I will not post on this thread again since it really shouldn't be here but should be in OTBGW and not in Just Talkin' Dawgs and I think I've made my points even if some don't agree.

[Guest]

I would say I have to agree with DRamey. I have been the director of transportation and buildings and grounds maintenance for a small school district for 10 years. I have seen kids screaming at teachers, principals, bus drivers, and anyone else they feel like, then you talk to a parent and you know why the child acts that way. I am only talking about a small percentage of the students that create most of the problems. They have no respect for themselves, their parents, or anyone else in authority. They go through the school kicking in doors and breaking windows, writing on walls, and I get to have someone waste their time cleaning it up. I try and make the student [if I am lucky enough to find out who it is] wash the wall or mop up the floor or whatever other mess there is to cleanup, then I get to go to the office [lucky me] and listen to the parent tell me why, due to my incompetence,their child was cleaning up my mess. I have had bus drivers quit because of parents and students behavior, they honestly don't get paid enough for what they do. I have even had video cameras on the busses that caught the exact wording or action of a student on the bus, and the parent would still want to blame another student or the driver for their childs behavior. I spend my whole day making people accountable for their actions. From my custodians to clean certain rooms they are assigned to, to my bus drivers getting the children to and from school in a safe and efficient manner, I see nothing wrong with making students accountable for theirs. Maybe when they are grown up and look back they will understand why. Sorry for my ramblings. Brian.

[DRamey]

Tim, I appreciate your opinion, point of view, and efforts to make life better for others. My generalization was based on my locality, and not nationwide. I know from the periodicals and national teachers' publications that I read that there are huge problems in a great number of school systems throughout the nation and I also understand that the government is throwing money at something that money won't help. My point is that there are many fine teachers who are the only good role models that many children ever see that model behaviors that are totally alien to the students. Generally, in my area (I can't speak for anyone else's neighborhood because I don't have firsthand experience) the teachers go far beyond the call of duty. I recently saw a secretary from a local elementary school shopping at WalMart during school hours. When I asked her how she got away from the office, she said that she was on the job. She was spending money that she had been given from faculty and staff to buy a child shoes,clothing and a jacket. She was buying the little girl a purse also because she said that all little girls need a purse. This echoes the attitudes and sentiments toward the children that I have encountered in the vast majority of faculty and staff that I have had the pleasure to work with in eastern Ky. While I am far from a liberal, I have never met a 7-year old who could tell me whether or not he or she was a conservative or a liberal, but I can tell from a distance quite often when a child needs love and encouragement. That's all I intended to say, that a little effort from many adds up to a lot of change.