Running in the wild vs pen

Mike B · Post by **Mike B** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:36 pm

Their have been a lot of people talking about solo, solo, and more solo time. I was wondering if anybody used a running pen to solo a pup after it had started. What the adv and disadv of leaving a pup in a pen overnight.

Thanks in advance...

bradadkins · Post by **bradadkins** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:20 pm

If the pen isn't very big the rabbit will run the same paths and the dogs get used to that..if there is alot of rabbits and they lose it they will just quite the track and go find another one. You want your pup to learn to grind out them tough checks.

Rabbithoundjb · Post by **Rabbithoundjb** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:55 pm

I like an enclosure for starting pups. After that I perfer the wild with a old dog that does what I like, now if you don't have one or a buddy with one you have to do what you have to do. Brad is right your pup needs to have to hunt for a rabbit and search to stay after THAT rabbit when lost.

DIXIEDOG · Post by **DIXIEDOG** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:44 pm

Alot depends on the size of your pen. If you have a 100+ acre enclosure with only a few rabbits you can run your dog in there a lot with no problems. After a while in a pen the rabbits really learn the tricks and can lay it right on a dog, when you hit the wild again your dog will run a rabbit like it's glued to it.

NoBull · Post by **NoBull** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:30 pm

It is all based on the pen size the dogs speed and the type of rabbits if your using 5+ acres with wild cottintails or smokey mountians or mosouri redbacks if it is pretty brushy you can do 1 rabbit per 2 acres and let the dog stay in they're for 2-3 hours if your pen is 10+ acres and decently brushy you could leave one in there all night 20+ acres you can put 2-3 in over night just make absolutly sure they have planty of water and shelter also you need to walk the property completely to insure that there are no brush piles a dog could get hung in or old wells or places they can get stuck or hurt in.

Pens are fine for conditioning etc. but never under estimate how much a dog can learn from old mother nature outside of a pen a dog crosses alot more types of terrains and other animals and distractions I could not imagine a 100 acre pen but sounds like fun if you have some hare in one

DIXIEDOG · Post by **DIXIEDOG** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:26 pm

I run in one 100 acre pen and one 80 acre pen with hare and it's a blast but when you want an easy run the wild is where it happens for me. Those rabbits in the pen act like they are "playing" with the dogs, alot of people talk about hare just all out running a big circle but if you have one in a pen getting run everyday you wouldn't believe the tricks they will pull. There is currently one that is called the "roadrunner" he gets tired of being chased then starts smoking up the road on the sand and gravel , even the best dogs go into a check then, then he'll fly off the road and crank out a few small circles, double back, hit the road again and take another break. He gives great runs but you'll have three or four 2 min checks or so an hour.

All my 2+ hour runs with few checks happen in the wild. (Of course in those 2 hrs I shoot 5 or 6 times. Missing on purpose of course.

)

NoBull · Post by **NoBull** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:39 pm

I have been working on building a large pen and was thinking of trying to get some hare put into it but where I live there are none and I am haveing some difficulting locating a good substitution or a breeder. I have heard of someone in Indiana raising Belguin Hare and I am curious of how similiar they would be to the hare in Maine if anyone knows I would really appreciate some info thanks.

Moore Beagles · Post by **Moore Beagles** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:17 am

A pen can be real useful if you want to make sure you can have trash free running, lots of rabbits. It works good after you have shocked a pup on trash, and want a controlled setting.
One problem I have seen is if the dogs run for several days without much interaction with people the dogs learn to hunt without you, and could care less if your around in the field. I have had dogs be a 1/4 mile away, on a far side of a circle, loss the rabbit in a hole, and then you have to hunt the dog because they went hunting without you looking for another rabbit. They decide not to check in on you, and keep hunting. Also I have seen what Brad was saying about a pup learning the common line the rabbit runs, and just sprint down the fence line knowing it would pickup the trail farther down, and looking like a superstar, when it really isn't following the line.

Shady Grove Beagles · Post by **Shady Grove Beagles** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:29 pm

Don't kid yourself. Running in a pen no matter what size it is is nothing like running rabbits or hare in the wild.
Many times I've shot hare in N.H.,Vt. and Me. that had taken the dogs out of hearing for 30-40 minutes and when I shot them they were as much as 4-5 minutes out in front of some pretty good/footy dogs.
Hare in a pen get so used to being run that most times they will only run just fast enough to stay just out in front of the the hounds. Nothing like a wild North Country hare.
Here in the south a swamp rabbit will head right for swimming water in the wild if you've got hounds that can really push them.In the enclosures they don't run much different from the cottontails.
And as always these are just MY OPINIONS.

J.Storer · Post by **J.Storer** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:39 pm

I have no experience running in a pen but i have about 1000acres of bush and swamp directly behind my house that i run.I would think a dog that runs in the wild would have a little more "street smarts" about them. Like dont walk on thin ice, dont pick fights with bears wolves or coyotes and learn what kind of cover holds hares more often.I have a friend who always runs his dog in a pen, he brought it out to my place and the dog was scared to leave his side when we got deep in the bush. Not used to all the wild sounds and smells I guess.

My 2 cents for what its worth.

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:22 pm

DIXIEDOG wrote:I run in one 100 acre pen and one 80 acre pen with hare and it's a blast but when you want an easy run the wild is where it happens for me. Those rabbits in the pen act like they are "playing" with the dogs, alot of people talk about hare just all out running a big circle but if you have one in a pen getting run everyday you wouldn't believe the tricks they will pull. There is currently one that is called the "roadrunner" he gets tired of being chased then starts smoking up the road on the sand and gravel , even the best dogs go into a check then, then he'll fly off the road and crank out a few small circles, double back, hit the road again and take another break. He gives great runs but you'll have three or four 2 min checks or so an hour.

All my 2+ hour runs with few checks happen in the wild. (Of course in those 2 hrs I shoot 5 or 6 times. Missing on purpose of course. )

Yep... don't take long fer them rabbits to get real educated. Terribly frustrating for the dogs, and the owners. The pen I run in has to be the worst in the world... or maybe my dogs are just the worst in the world!

They can run a deer a little on a good scent day, and maybe track an elephant in a foot of new snow.

NorWester · Post by **NorWester** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:06 pm

Its not difficult to get wild hare educated either in my opinion. I've never run in a hound in a pen but where I do run especially this time of year I don't take many hares. As a result they get quite accustomed to being persued by hounds. I was out today and the dogs jumped one not 50 yards from my house and I don't think that hare ever ran more than 5 acres, even though there are thousands at its disposal. It seemed to be running how most describe cottontail runs.