guess who signed a scorecard

[dogwhisperer]

well first of all if i knew there was 17 year old kid and it wasnt against the rules i would prepare my kid for the game 2nd of all if i were that scared of the kid i would probally just keep my money and my kid and stay home.but no i would not whine and cry because the kid was so much better than mine... just like the saying goes if you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch

[tony upton]

Just thought everyone should know. I had a couple of grands I was pushing for HOF the last couple years and I wasn't going to leave my best open dog at home. I also held Max back trying to win a natl. in the open class. I have never won a natl. in the open class. I signed Sadie [age3.5] and Prop [age 1.5] scorecard this year. Just wanted you to know I do sign the the card are young dogs also. The youngest pup I ever made champion was 10 months. It's not all about age its about ability. DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE BUMPER STICKER. IF YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS STAY ON THE PORCH. " Keep them running I'll see you at the hunts "

[xdawg]

I will say this has made for some really good reading... Some really good points have been made...

However, to me, this is a classic case of that you shouldn't hate the player, HATE THE GAME.

Tony isn't breaking the rules, if something is wrong with the rules fix it. I'm sure he isn't the only one doing it.

Personally, its not right to be able to hold a dog back by not signing or scratching a dog. But currently its well within the rules. The only reason i can see that being in the rules is so something freak happens just before a big hunt or something. Well i say at worst... You should only be able to do something like that once at best... But lets be honest, if you dog wins, wins and move on, maybe you'll win nationals as a champion.... If you have a dog worthy of nationals don't run him too much before nationals...

Basically don't hate tony for playing by the rules.... Change the rules if it bothers you....

Take Care boys.... Anytime any of you pass Milton, WV (Between Charleston and Huntington, WV on I64) and want to run you are more then welcome to look me up.... As crabby would say "You're Invited"

-Jack

[Tim H]

I do not know Tony nor do I run in ARHA, but I have been reading this thread and find it interesting. I agree that if the rules allow it then it's not cheating. I do see it as unsportsmanlike.

xdawg is right to an extent, the rules are really the start of the problem, but arrogant statements make it a little harder to hate the game and not the player.

It is ironic that Tony would chose to post

"DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE BUMPER STICKER. IF YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS STAY ON THE PORCH. "

When indeed he is avoiding having his dog run with the big dogs.

He also wrote

I also held Max back trying to win a natl. in the open class.

If a dog deserves to win a national event and get the honor that such an achievement brings, it shouldn't be gained through a back door approach.

Like I said, I don't know Tony and as xdawg stated, he is probably not the only one doing it. It's just my opinion which ain't much.

[Hatfield]

However, to me, this is a classic case of that you shouldn't hate the player, HATE THE GAME.



-Jack

Isn't this exactly what is wrong with our way of life today? Why do we need to have, or be bound by, more and more rules? I want to live free from all the fine print that is brought about by the STRETCHERS.

No offense Jack, just look at it my way so you'll be right! LOL

[CHRIS WHITT]

just look at it my way so you'll be right! LOL

Hatfield , I bet you heard that from a woman

[Matt Glomski]

In my opinion Little Pack should run there HOY race just like Progressive Pack. I think it would be worth Little Packs while to try it for a year or two. It makes for a fair race in each class. It is also a fun way to run for HOY. Then if a hound wins 10 or more hunts in the opens (or champs) so be it....the hound will probeblly be a class HOY and rightfully so and have his wins to brag on. JMO

[JCM]

In my opinion Little Pack should run there HOY race just like Progressive Pack.

I totally agree with you Matt, and I have been saying this forever. If a hound starts in a class, let him/her stay there for the entire year. Then on January 1, it moves to the next class. Then, we would finally have a shot at having the best hound win the Hound of the Year in the open and champion classes. The way it is set up, the best hound never wins the HOY in the opens and champions.

A perfect example happened last year in the champion class. My dad's Willie dog only ran in 2 hunts and was moved to the grand class (they since changed interpretation of the rule). He was beat out by a champion dog that ran in over 40 hunts.

I believe that several dogs that have received awards as HOY would never have been close if dogs had been allowed to run in the class they started in for the entire year.

As for Tony and Max, I think they should start a new award in the Hall of Fame. This award should be called Rule Benders. You must force at least 5 rule changes to be admitted. Oh, by the way, I would recommend this be called the Upton award!

[BIG AL]

I wish I had a hound that was good enough that I could scratch it from several hunts and still win hound of the year, even in open class.

[James Hitchcock]

Rules are Rules he's not breaking any rules just smart enough to use them to his advantage to achieve his goals he has set for himself in little pack! Tony and a few others that have been sucessful and around for awhile always getting slammed when they should be getting look up on they been around long enough and judged enough to see what it takes to win Tony has judged me several times and can't remember but i don't think i ever won under Tony but always agreed he brought back the right dog and anymore that is a big deal lets look at real problems in little pack like buddy judging it is getting worse every year and people are getting good at it just my 2 cents

[Del]

Tim H said it all If they can run with the Big Dogs let them I would rather win a Big Hunt in the Champion or Grands Then you know you have the top dog.

[SilverZuk]

I totally agree with you Matt, and I have been saying this forever. If a hound starts in a class, let him/her stay there for the entire year. Then on January 1, it moves to the next class. Then, we would finally have a shot at having the best hound win the Hound of the Year in the open and champion classes. The way it is set up, the best hound never wins the HOY in the opens and champions.

That sounds like a good solution.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

HEY
YOU GUY'S ARE HOLDING BACK WAY TO MUCH,,LET'S ADD A NEW TWIST TO THIS.AS FOR, TONY, I'VE MET HIM BUT DOUBT HE REMEMBERS, I DON'T GO TO MANY HUNTS, BUT THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE H.O.Y WAS STARTED IT'S JUST PART OF THE GAME.THE RULES THE RULES WHEN A JUDGE CAN MAKE A JUDGEMENT CALL ON WHICH DOG JUMPED,WHO GOT THE CHECK .WAS THE DOG BACKING UP.DID A DOG PULL THE DOGS OUT OF A CHECK.YOU SIGN THE SCORE CARD .RUB YOUR SORE BUTT AND GO ON .IT IS RARE THAT THE CALL WILL BE CHANGED.AS FAR AS RUNNING AGAINST A DOG THAT SHOULD BE CHAMPION OR GRAND.DON'T MAKE NO DIFF....TO SOME THAT SAID YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO RUN A YOUNG DOG THAT IS IN OPEN CLASS AGAINST AN OLDER DOG.....WHAT ABOUT RUNNING THAT 15 MONTH OLD THAT IS 15IN AGAIN A 151/2 DOG THE SAME AGE YOU SEE PEOPLE JUST CAN'T BE SATISFIED.I DON'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE.AND DON'T CARE I JUST RUN HE BEST DOG I CAN PERIOD.......J.M.O. THIS IS SOME GOOD DEBATE --------

KEEPEM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES