Checks?

[John-PA]

I agree that 15 seconds is long, if you have a really clean dog that doesn't have very many long breakdowns it isn't going to score much in little pack. Regardless of hunting or trialing I don't think anoyone wants long breakdowns in there runs.

[jonnyringo]

I can understand in theory about the forward progress but I have seen some rabbits do some crazy things that create a small disruption in the run. I guess a check is a bit different than a "hard check." Seems like if the scenting were really bad there would be a lot of scoring.
I have ran dogs that ran for 45 minutes strong on somedays and then I have seen the same dogs look like idiots on other days.

[danny vansickle]

danny,

Not really interested in the ARHA rules. As my questions was asked...what is the hunter's perspective first, then the field trialer. I don't consider 15 seconds a check. Seems a little quick in my book. When a rabbit makes a 90 degree turn the dogs may overrun a bit and it may take 25 seconds to get back on track. If a rabbit backtracks or jumps over a big log, swims over some water, pulls some fancy footwork, etc. this will produce a check in my book.

i was just explaining how it is scored in lp,i like runnin dogs hat snap back and recover the line as quick as possible,but that is my opinion,and everyone has one.

[DANELL MCKINNEY]

i just wanna go fast

[Alabama John]

A 15 second check is a LOOOOOOng one around here.

If you have a good check recovery dog in LP you will score big at 25 points per 15 minute check if:
Someone brought a check creator dog to each cast you run so your dog can recover them. Or, your dog is good at creating 15 second checks and recovering their own.

From a hunters point of view, dogs having 15 second checks are faulty.

In some casts, I have seen the score card have 350 points to one, 300 to another, 275 to another and so on. High scoring cast. Anyone figure how many checks that equals at 25 each? All in a one hour cast.
Pretty sorry running to me.

[CHRIS WHITT]

Jonnyringo Wrote:
[/quote]UKC seems to have more correct and fair in my opinion.
What does AKC consider a check in terms of time, anyone?[quote]

I don't understand why it is fair or unfair,the hounds are not punished or beaten for the loss they are awarded for the recovery. .I dont see how it would matter if you called 15 seconds a check or 15 minutes , as long as the rules apply to every hound on the ground (it's fair).And as for a hunters point of view I am not scoring my hounds so I don't look at my watch everytime they break down.Why would you be worried about a check when hunting?

And Mr McKinney if you want to go fast you better find you some dogs!!!

[mayhem78]

If the pack is having 15 second checks regularly I start getting MAD!!!!!!

A 15 second breakdown is a major screw up in my book. I dont like breakdowns of any kind. And I would think every gun hunter would hate a breakdown.

I agree Matt, after trialing for a few years now i've come to appreciate those hounds that can lock on to a track and just get it done under the gun regardless of there field trial record, some may hit hard and grab your attention in good scent conditions but can they bare down in extreme conditions? That's a question I feel trialers should be asking themselves more often.

[danny vansickle]

everone has their own oppinion of what a good hound is

just like there are different style of dogs,if all dogs ran the same,we would have only one format,fact is all dogs do not run the same style,therefore there are different formats with different rules and scorng systems,and the owner needs to either see what format thier dog fits in,or what format they like and get that style of dog

akc midwest promotes a line control dog that runs with fewer losses or checks,and the dogs are awarded for front end control and raw rabbit running ability.

lp promotes a balls to the wall,rougher running,dog that may loose the line more,but that is why you need a good check dog with a big nose to be successfull.

i am not sayin one is right and one is wrong,but one style dog may do better in one format than the other.it is up to the owner to fit the right dog in the right format.

myself,i like to run a cleaner dog that is what i call borderline,l i like a dog that can run both,a dog with line control and foot but when a loss does occur,it has big enough nose and the brains to recover and score.

jmho

[eddywilliams]

ringo i think we need to run with some of these dogs that never have losses and only for 15 sec or less ,yogi was an arha style dog check dog supreme he rarely gets out checked

[jonnyringo]

ringo i think we need to run with some of these dogs that never have losses and only for 15 sec or less ,yogi was an arha style dog check dog supreme he rarely gets out checked

eddy,

I need to see some of these perfect dogs. In all my years of running I have yet to see a dog(s) that never had a check. Agreed, I don't want dogs with continuous breakdowns but I am realistic and honest enough to realize that a checkfree (15 seconds that is) is not going to happen all that often where I run. It is too thick. If you run in a grass fields maybe there will be many check free runs. I run in rough deer country that you can not even walk through this time of year with downfalls and OAK tops left over from timbering with briars and vegetation, etc. to the point that it looks like the Amazon. Maybe geography plays a role. I use to field trial in the early 90's and seen a lot of excellent dogs run and had a female (Birch Lake Texas T bred) that placed in every trial I entered her in (3) but I never witnessed a checkfree run. In fact, I don't think I have witnessed a checkfree run in all my years of beagling unless I shot the rabbit on the first or second circle. Any run that went on for over 30 minutes usually had its share of 15 second checks. I guess I will have to attend some ARHA trials and witness this for myself.
How many dogs are packed up during an ARHA trial?

[jonnyringo]

Jonnyringo Wrote:

UKC seems to have more correct and fair in my opinion.
What does AKC consider a check in terms of time, anyone?

I don't understand why it is fair or unfair,the hounds are not punished or beaten for the loss they are awarded for the recovery. .I dont see how it would matter if you called 15 seconds a check or 15 minutes , as long as the rules apply to every hound on the ground (it's fair).And as for a hunters point of view I am not scoring my hounds so I don't look at my watch everytime they break down.Why would you be worried about a check when hunting?

And Mr McKinney if you want to go fast you better find you some dogs!!!

Correct in scoring format and fair to the handler.

[PABeagler]

[quote="Ark"]I agree with Chuck.

Anytime my dogs quit barking or moving the line forward, its a check to me as a hunter.

I have to partially disagree with this statement. It is only true if the dog does not know what direction the rabbit is heading. If a dog overruns the line, and snaps back to it immediately because he knows which direction the rabbit is going, then this is not a check in my opinion.

[Larry G]

2 couple pack trials score the dogs on breakdown time in a 20 minute run I believe. It is not at all uncommon to see no down time at all. The dogs don't go very fast and bark a lot. When they all shut up it is considered down time.

As per my understanding hounds are said to be at check any time forward progress on a true line comes to a halt. Trying to define it by time limits and award points for picking checks is a silly way of picking the best dog. A friend of mine lost a trial like that and he asked the judges why. They said oh, you had the best dog in the trial, no doubt, but... she was picking the checks too quick and we couldn't give her credit for them.

Best way would be to get some fast, young, knowledgeable, and honest (good luck on that one) men or women and let them watch the dogs perform. There would still be the style Vs. accomplishment issue, my own take on that is , if you are going rabbit hunting, and trialing was originally begun to see who had the best rabbit hunting dog, style won't put a lot of game in the bag.

[Alabama John]

I also agree with Chuck. A dog that keeps interrupting the running by causing 15 second or longer checks will be gone fast. The rabbit went in a tree, or left a track or body scent, they can't fly!!!

I've seen many cast in ARHA LP not have any checks that took a minimum of 15 seconds and thus according to the rules ran check free. I've also seen judges that called shorter than 15 second checks too to help out.

By far most races here in the swamps do not have any checks that last 15 seconds especially while hunting as the area is even clearer after the first frost of hunting season. I have seen and hunted with several friends ARHA Grand Champions that ran check free here too. They would not have made Grand if they ran like that other places in trials.

This may be another where you hunt or run question, and mine may run like yours if they were at your home and yours run like mine here.

[Joeyman]

ringo i think we need to run with some of these dogs that never have losses and only for 15 sec or less ,yogi was an arha style dog check dog supreme he rarely gets out checked

eddy,

I need to see some of these perfect dogs. In all my years of running I have yet to see a dog(s) that never had a check. Agreed, I don't want dogs with continuous breakdowns but I am realistic and honest enough to realize that a checkfree (15 seconds that is) is not going to happen all that often where I run. It is too thick. If you run in a grass fields maybe there will be many check free runs. I run in rough deer country that you can not even walk through this time of year with downfalls and OAK tops left over from timbering with briars and vegetation, etc. to the point that it looks like the Amazon. Maybe geography plays a role. I use to field trial in the early 90's and seen a lot of excellent dogs run and had a female (Birch Lake Texas T bred) that placed in every trial I entered her in (3) but I never witnessed a checkfree run. In fact, I don't think I have witnessed a checkfree run in all my years of beagling unless I shot the rabbit on the first or second circle. Any run that went on for over 30 minutes usually had its share of 15 second checks. I guess I will have to attend some ARHA trials and witness this for myself.
How many dogs are packed up during an ARHA trial?

I'd like to see that too.........All dogs have break down into checks.......but I haven't seen a whole bunch of different dogs run....So I don't know what's out there. But it's kind of hard to believe....I have to see it to believe it.