AKC Show and Field champion

[TC]

I can understand how it must be hard to pay a high price for a show bred dog however, I feel for the work I do, the sacrifices I make and the $$ I spend making them champions I'm asking a fair price. Its not as easy as it looks and its costly!

Leah you are quite right about that, it is the same in the field as well, however this is where many make their mistake they will cut each others throat to sell a pup when they have one to many and cut price so finally the ones that are shopping for a pup will wait till they feel that the seller of the field pup is rock bottom price then buy it. I have seen where so many of them post on this board I won't pay over 100 for a pup well hello guys those pups cost money, you have time shots, vet bills and other expenses into that litter. Maybe some day these guys that are selling pups will wake up and smell the coffee but am beginning to think differently.

The field trials cost no less then showing a dog when you add up the trianing time, the gas to trials, the entry fees and so forth. Field trianing to get a FCH is extensive it is out in the field 3 to 5 days a week 2 hours at a whack and to find those fields to run in isn't easy either many times you have to drive all over creation to find a training area safe enough to train.

Yes I know that many show breeders hire handlers to handle their dogs it is the same in the field too. So if you added it up dollar for dollar on the costs I am betting it is running close to the same in cost wise, however to many on here think they should get something for nothing, and when it comes to dogs for some reason folks think less of a feild hound then one that shows when there should be equal respect. Just my opinion.

[SouthernBeagles]

I can understand how it must be hard to pay a high price for a show bred dog however, I feel for the work I do, the sacrifices I make and the $$ I spend making them champions I'm asking a fair price. Its not as easy as it looks and its costly!

Leah

Leah,
Is it correct that you have to have 15 points and 2 majors to finish a CH? And is it true that you have to beat 3 or 4 dogs to get that major? Is it ALSO true that if you go to an all breed show and bring 3 or 4 extra dogs to "stack the class" you can get your majors against your own dogs?

Aside from Grooming and training (which you can do in your own home), Hotels and travel expenses and the $22.00 entry fee, what else goes into the expense end of campaigning a Show hound? I just can't understand how it can cost you any more to finish a CH than me to finish an AKC FC???

I don't have the special shampoo to buy, but I do have the expense of driving to my running grounds, and the hours and hours each week it takes to condition my hound so he will perform at his best. I also have the vet bills, vaccines, worming medication, ext (same as you). I feed a quality feed so my hound will be able to perform.

To finish an AKC FC, I have to drive where ever there is a trial and I pick my judges too. With gas at $3.00 a gallon this can be expensive. I may or may not have hotel expenses depending on how far the trial is or who I know close by. I pay $20.00 entry (two dollars less than you). I have to have 3 first place wins and 120 points. The points come from how many dogs are entered in a class. I may compete against 10 dogs at one trial and 50 at the next. I can't stack my classes with my own dogs to make FC.

As you can see, there is a LOT that goes into finishing a FC. I am sure I didn't cover everything involved to finish a CH or a FC but you can get the idea just how close the costs are as well as the time involved. I just can't see how you can justify your quote. Your time is no more valuable than mine and your expenses to show are no more than mine to trial.

[AlabamaSwamper]

TC and Southern,

When you have a dog like Rowdy, you can charge $1000's for his pups.


Now, if I can just find a female that will have relations with him. ROFL

[TC]

TC and Southern,

When you have a dog like Rowdy, you can charge $1000's for his pups.


Now, if I can just find a female that will have relations with him. ROFL

Yeah and we all want pink pups!

[tiffinis]

bottom line is, when you have a dog that is capable of going to Westminster, you simply get more respect from the dog world. It isnt who works harder or puts more money in or who loves their dogs more. When it comes to the dollar, a Westminster dog is going to bring in more for their pups then a FC dog. Fair, maybe not, but the truth.

I still think the 2 worlds need to come back together and try to get back to dual champions. Do I live in a fantasy world... probably. But other hunting breeds still do it....

[TC]

I still think the 2 worlds need to come back together and try to get back to dual champions.

We been tootin that Horn until it has become a TUBA!!!!!!!!!!!


NOW a Question for everybody
HOW COME field breeders will sell thier Dogs For Pennies and Show breeders Get the Big Bucks??????
Supply and Demand????
I am still under the opinion that IF i say IF the field Folks Would just Ask More or refuse to sell for less they could get more!!!!!
I Will personally GIVE a dog away before i will Sell for under $300
I looked in the paper today and there were 3 ads for purebred beagles for $50 each If ya caint sell em DONT breed Em!!!!!!!!!
Another thing i See from Some of the average hunters or Trialers (not all)
Is they will breed Just to breed without reguard to background or lines or even if the Dogs match up they just want another huntin Dog
Why Will I sell a Show Quality hound for more Money
Cause I can!!!!!
More and more Folk are getting better informed and KNOW what they are looking For.
I would Much rather Sell that Good Show quality hound to a Field trialer that is wanting to add better looks and Conformation to thier lines and will Hunt or trial over them before those that will just keep em in the house or in a crate.
Oh Well just some Ramblins From them other Folk

[AlabamaSwamper]

Honey Pot or Windkist,

Do you paint your dogs' nails?

I know TC does, just wondering if all show people do. ROFL!

I have to check his dogs every time I see them.

[SouthernBeagles]

. It isnt who works harder or puts more money in or who loves their dogs more.

Ah but Tiffis, Leah said it is!!! I found Her post to be condensending as if SHE was the only one that worked hard and spent money to finish her hounds, there for her pups were worth more for that reason.

Sure ask what ever price for a pup you want Leah, but give an honest answer why instead of that bull hockey. They are your dogs and its your buisness and you can do what you want with them, I don't care. But remember, it doesn't cost you any more to finish your pups as it does me.

Bottom line is this these pups sell for so much because they are show pups and that what show people ask for them wether they are worth it or not. The show hounds have just as many issues as the field hounds when it comes to conformation or genetic issues. They may not be as obvious, but believe me the problems are STILL THERE! I remember a while back there was this woman trying to sell one of her show pups to "improve the hunting dogs conformation". That pup was a train wreck and wasn't going to help anyones breeding program and would actually hurt anyones!!! It should have been nutered, not sold. She was just trying to pawn off her junk on some stupid field guy and she was asking a fortune!!! I DO find that offensive.

Show people have this price scale for "Show Quality" and "Pet Quality" pups. A "Pet Quality is a cull but they still want a fortune for them, PLUS they make them spay and nuter and jump through hoops just to OWN a dog out of CH FooFoo. The show folks know there is a sucker born every minuite to pawn these culls off on. I find it sickning. MOST Show people (and I give Leah credit here) won't even consider selling a pup to a field guy as if what we do is wrong with our hounds. There is a Show lady in Alabama that made the comment on how she wouldn't want her babies to get hurt chasing a rabbit, LMAO. Most show people (not all) have no clue what the hounds they are showing are even bred to do and don't care. In the same respect and in all fairness, most field breeders don't have a clue just how important conformation is!!

Leah, this isn't a slam on you. I have nothing against you. You have produced a very fine dog! I do have a problem with the show mentality and your post . The show folks think they ARE the beagle world, LOL. I give you credit for what you do in the field with your hounds. Maybe you should try to finish Parker as an AKC FC

[Larry G]

bottom line is, when you have a dog that is capable of going to Westminster, you simply get more respect from the dog world. It isnt who works harder or puts more money in or who loves their dogs more. When it comes to the dollar, a Westminster dog is going to bring in more for their pups then a FC dog. Fair, maybe not, but the truth.

I still think the 2 worlds need to come back together and try to get back to dual champions. Do I live in a fantasy world... probably. But other hunting breeds still do it....

Oh really? What other hunting breeds still do it?

[TC]

Honey Pot or Windkist,

Do you paint your dogs' nails?

I know TC does, just wondering if all show people do. ROFL!

I have to check his dogs every time I see them.

ROFLMAO

Dont ya Know Swamp it makes em Run Faster kinda like them PINK Collars ifin you was to paint yer nails and wear a pink Shirt i am Sure you would run Faster to....... But then again Some Fellas Can get away with that kinda thing

[Larry G]

Southern Beagles were you at the Tuckaseegee trial a while back with your daughter? Had a big male that made the winner's pack?

Back to the subject, it is not JUST supply and demand, who works harder or spends more money, has better connections in the sport (OK I know most will deny that, but I done been around WAY too long, kiddies) or the intrinsic value of a pup that sets the going rate. It also depends on the disposable income of the clientele. Field trialing and rabbit hunting can boast a few pretty well to do supporters, compared to the show crowd we are a pretty shabby bunch of rednecks. It's hard to milk a thousand bucks outta someone who just ain't GOT a thousand bucks to waste on some damfool dog.

If you are wanting to make money selling puppydogs, beagles ain't the way to go. I lose money with mine every year and most of you do too. I sell the ones I don't want to keep to pet buyers. They will pay about twice what a hunter or field trialer will and don't ask near as many questions! Started dogs I just give to a dog trader I run with, he makes up a much better lie than I do and buys me a beer now and then. The old tightwads at the trials will try to offer you $150 and a pocketknife for one that just won a licensed trial, well like TC said I'd rather just give em away.

[Windkist]

Ah but Tiffis, Leah said it is!!! I found Her post to be condensending as if SHE was the only one that worked hard and spent money to finish her hounds, there for her pups were worth more for that reason.

Sure ask what ever price for a pup you want Leah, but give an honest answer why instead of that bull hockey. They are your dogs and its your buisness and you can do what you want with them, I don't care. But remember, it doesn't cost you any more to finish your pups as it does me

The problem with email is that there is no tone of voice or emotion. I wasn't slamming field beaglers at all. I was just saying why MY dogs cost what they do. I set my price at what I personally feel like they are worth. Nobody is forced to pay it.

As for stacking classes with our own dogs? This just doesn't happen that I know of. Here in Utah in the highest point schedule in the country it takes 7 dogs and 9 bitches to make a 3 point major. try finding that here.. HA! So, I have to drive 500 miles or more to get to a show that might have enough to make majors. 500 miles each way at 3.15 gal for gas..ugh! Hotels,food etc. We do have some of the same expenses and it probably costs about the same for each of us which is why I can't understand selling puppies for 200.00. When I make a breeding.. unless I use my own dog which I don't often do because he is related to most of the bitches I have I have to ship to the dog and pay a stud fee. Then of course the usual expenses of shots,worming etc for the puppies and my TIME! my time is worth something to me anyway.

I think its sad that there is such a gap of respect between show and field people. The pets I sell from my litters are not culls but, puppies that I don't need to keep. I agonize over selling show prospects to others as I want them to have the best and I want to be proud of what I bred in the ring. I have always been open with the field people and have never treated them as you say "like show people ARE the beagle world" I highly respect those who hunt their dogs and NO you won't find Parker at a field trial but, maybe you'll see some of his kids ;-)

Leah

[tiffinis]

Labs:

Dual Ch. Michael of Glenmere (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Gorse of Arden (blk.F)
NFC/Dual Ch. Shed of Arden (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Braes of Arden (blk.F)
Dual Ch. Little Pierre of Deercreek (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Yodel of Moreexpense (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Bracken Sweep (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Matchmaker for Deercreek (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Grangemead Precocious (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Hello Joe of Rocheltree (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Cherokee Buck (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Bengal of Arden (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Treveilyr Swift (blk.M - import)
Dual Ch. Dela-Winn's Tar of Craignook (bik.M)
NFC/Dual Ch. Nilo Possibility (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Beau Brummel of Wyndale (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Boley's Tar Baby (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Penney Oaks Corky (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Kingswere Black Ebony (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Alpine Cherokee Rocket (bik.M)
Dual Ch. Markwell's Ramblin'Rebel (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Krooked Kreek Knight (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Little Miss Timber (blk.F)
Dual Ch. Burnham Buff (yel.F)
Dual Ch. Problem Boy Duke of Wake (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Danny's Cole Black Slate (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Calypso Clipper (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Ridgewood Playboy (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Torque of Daingerfield (yel.M)
Dual Ch. Happy Playboy (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Sherwood's Maid Marion (yel.F)
Dual Ch. Petite Rouge (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Trumarc's Triple Threat (blk. M)
Dual Ch. Shamrock Acres Super Drive (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Royal Oaks Jill of Burgundy (blk.F)
Dual Ch. Warpath Macho (blk.M)
Dual Ch. Hiwood Shadow (blk.M)

I know there are also a few setters and other breeds, I am just not as familiar with them.

[Larry G]

Were those labs AKC dual champions? The Setters and Pointers I have seen that could finish as an AKC show champion couldn't get past Jr. hunter much less win a field trial. I think there may have been some Brits back there somewhere that were duals. Not much of a threat at Grand Junction. I don't know of a Setter dual, Pointer either. And the Retriever trials are more about OB than physical prowess and talent anyway. You can train any kind of mutt to do some fetching. Kinda hard to take one and win a LP on hare trial or a 3 hour all age stake on quail.

[tiffinis]

I dont want to get in over my head in this conversation...
I have never shown and I dont field trial....yet...on both accounts. I just have goals. This is all a learning curve for me. I have been training dogs for 32 years. I grew up in a house of breeders. I am not a newbie to dogs, but the re