Great Dogs that aren't FC Bred

[huntinfool]

Had a fella try to tell me today, that the ONLY way to get good dogs was to go to FC bred pups. Now, there's no doubt in my mind that there are some excellent FC bred pups out there. I also know that I've seen some double FC pups that couldn't even run a rabbit. There's also little doubt in my mind that there are some really great dogs out there that don't have a FC in their pedigree anywhere. There are so many posts on here, and times that I've talked to people and we've been talking about "the best dog they ever saw", and guys are saying, "the best dog I ever saw was an old grade dog..." I myself pay more weight to how the mother and father of a litter of pups run than what's in their pedigree. I'm just a gundog man though, not a trialer. But my feeling on this is... Somewhere along the line, these "FC's" came from gundogs. My dogs can run a rabbit efficiently, but I guess not well enough to suit some, I usually have no problem getting a limit of rabbits for 2 or 3 guys in 4 or 5 hours with just my dogs. They make a mistake or 2, or 3 sometimes, but they get the job done!!! I think there are a lot of excellent gundogs out there that are just as good as the "FC's", just they aren't recognized cause they haven't been campaigned. I would like to hear other guy's thoughts on this.

[Beagleman63]

Huntinfool, I totally agree with you. I currently have 8 dogs in my kennel. 7 of the 8 are either FC of IFC bred, and about half of those have the "titles" on the bottom as well as the top side. About two years ago, a guy down in Jackson Ohio had a litter of pups that were out of two gundogs he owned and I ended up with a small (13 1/2") bluetick female out of this litter. He is strictly a gunner. I run 15's, and because she was as they say "bastard" sized, I seriously thought about getting rid of her. That would have been a BAD mistake! She has turned out to be an excellent jumpdog, and although small in stature, she is huge in desire and ability to just flat out smoke a rabbit! She has no trouble running with my other dogs in any way shape or form and gives 110% every time I put her on the ground. She is here to stay! She is AKC registered, and I personally prefer dogs that are. I do like to field trial and most of the trialing I do is in the AKC. I like to think of trialing as a reason to keep my dogs in shape for the upcoming hunting season, and yes, I like to hunt! If I was strictly a gunner, the papers may not matter. I also run with a guy near here that has a female grade dog that could hold her own with about anything I've seen at a trial. I believe there are some awsome FC hounds out there that more than deserved their titles, but there are also some that do not. I guess the bottom line in my humble opinion is, watch the dogs run, if possible gun over them to. If you like the way they look, and they can prove themselves in the field first, go for it!

[Robg]

Great post guys , I agree 100%. Huntinfool I have also been told by individuals that the only good pups were pups sired by FC , it is ashamed that there are individuals that actually believe this. You can just watch some of the post on this board and other sites of individuals looking for a stud dog , the first thing most are looking for is a FC. When looking for a stud dog my first criteria is always a tried and true rabbit dog, who can jump and run his own rabbit , good conformation, trash free, with good hunt.

[gus]

Unfortunately about the only dogs you see advertised in beagle publications are Field Champions. Advertising gets results.
It would be interesting to find out how many hunters "best gundog" was sired by a field champion.

My best gundog, was not by a field champion.
My second best was by FC Bucks Branch Kalagha.
Third best was not sired by a FC.

[denny606]

I messed up read the next post(entered it twice and don't know how to delete it )

[denny606]

you may love huntin ,but you ain't no fool when it come to RABBIT dogs,I'm one of those guys that you were talkin about who says the best dog they ever hunted over didn't have any papers.Don't get me wrong I own some AKC dogs with pretty good peds ,I also own Fred who can't read and has no papers.My dogs stay here because they suit me and I'm the one who feeds em,I don't field trial anymore because I just don't have time.I used to like it but it seems it more about building a dogs name up to sell pups or get big stud fees instead of rabbit hunting. We have driven the price of dogs up to the point that someone who might want to get started is intimidated by the price and of the competition to get that FC mark at all cost.I breed only to proven gun dogs if they have FC in their ped it's just a bonus to me,I love to watch a good Little Pack trial and I do see some mighty fine dogs out there.I guess the point I'm trying to make is it's about dog's and rabbits and how well a dog handles and hunt's.Don't let us get to the point where we look down our noses at grade dogs and people who own them,Hang in there huntinfool you got the track lined out,Denny

[jumpmaster]

I agree with everything posted above, except the part that said we are pricing out newcomers to this sport, around here you can still buy a pup out of two good dogs for $100. The last time I checked a pug is $400. I know people give thousands for a hound that is winning trials, but you can buy pups out of that dog pretty reasonably. I only have one akc reg. dog, I dont sell many pups, so it is low on my list of importance, when purchasing a dog. I want the dog that can run a track when the others cant, no matter how its ped. looks.

[huntinfool]

It appears there are a lot of people that feel the same way as me. I do try to keep registered dogs, just because I feel it makes it easier for me to get rid of them if I ever have to, or want to. I've been going to quite a few trials lately, and I've seen more dogs that I didn't like with FC breeding than dogs that I did. I've seen some really good ones there too though. This is a little off topic but I was at one trial, and a particular dog totally dominated his cast, was running the rabbit almost alone. He came back for winner's pack of course, did the same thing for the first hour and a half, total domination. Everybody at the trial is talking about him. Then when they got down to the last 6 dogs, he started skirting, but he was still running more rabbit than any other dog. He was picked up, and didn't even place. Now, me being just a gundog man, if I was going to that trial to purchase a dog, and that's usually how I grade the dogs at a trial... "Which one would I want to take home?", there is no doubt that would be the one I would want, there's not any others even close. I'm just not sure all these credentials are all that pertinent to a great gundog like they should be. Before somebody gets upset that I'm knocking FC's, I would like to note, that I've seen a few FC's that I'd love to make a spot for in my kennel. One of which is probably the best dog I've ever seen.