natrually trash proof

[bob huffman]

If a line was 90% trash free that would be pretty good. I notice some lines with extra nose to work the tough rabbit tracks might be less prone to run fast game. Most of the short blood I have had turned down deer races. Just had a 16 month old bitch that is half Short turn down 2 races yesterday morning. The deer got up in front of her and one bunch was 2 does and a buck that took off across a bean field in plain view. She started after them and quit both times in about 100 feet and went into the brush to look for rabbits. I never said a word to her. She is an extra hard hunter and is fast so don't think she isn't ready to run. She just is not interested in deer scent too much I guess. I would have thought she was the most likely to run one out of all her littermates because she is hyped up and fast. Would be interested to know if others that own Short breeding have trash problems. I have a male with 3 shots up close of Lineboss and he doesn't like them either. Seems odd to me that every Beagle has to be broke off deer. That hasn't been my experience but I have had deer runners like a lot of folks. Maybe the dogs I had were really deer runners but I just didn't notice? I do think some of the more trash free lines will throw a deer runner as it is hard to keep a line pure. To know more than that, a person would have to hunt with every family of beagles in the country. I haven't done that so my experience is limited to the dogs I have seen, just like everyone else.

[AlabamaSwamper]

You said Darrin. No dog is trash free unless they turn them down til they die. I still believe that it is all in exposure and good handlers and trainers will not expose young dogs to deer. Let them get their nose full or rabbit and hopefully they will be smart enough to not take the deer when it gets up. I think this is especially true if they get a gun season under their belt and get to see what is at the end of the line. Otherwise, any young and sometimes old unbroke dog can be made a deer dog if exposed and I stick to that belief.

[snowshoehareguide]

The ONLY trash-proof dog is one that never ran trash until the day it DIED!

mr Darrin ,,,,,you have said a mouthful here . . ive seen a straight beagle run deer for first time at 8 years old . she had some help so i didnt try and break her right away. the next time she did a better job. and took some pups with her. so then i had 3 to break, pete

[snowshoehareguide]

. I notice some lines with extra nose to work the tough rabbit tracks might be less prone to run fast game. .

bob ive found this to be very true with bear dogs.. the ones with better noses will trail thru a ton of trash.. most times keep going with bear track even if another dog does run trash.. it seems logical to me that this should apply to beagles.. when ive had trash problems with beagles it was usaully a case of one dog causing problems for the rest. . i always say dogs are as bad as worst one in pack.. anyways this sure is a hot topic.. .. pete

[Tim Hackworth]

I run about 12-16 hounds all the time in big deer country with no problems. I take unstarted pups right along with the pack and the youngsters learn not to run deer this way. To me, it seems simple, but you have to have the right hounds. I do believe you could breed a line of trash-proof hounds (I'm almost there now) if that was your main objective. I also believe young hounds should be exposed to deer and other off game early on.

[AlabamaSwamper]

The bet is still up for grabs. Any trash free line is welcome to come to ALabama and be tested for one year. Running trash free dogs is the way to go to start pups for sure but I still stick to my belief that you cannot breed deer running out of a pup. It all goes back to exposure and training.

[Tim Hackworth]

Perhaps YOU couldn't breed trash free beagles, sir, but I know I could if that was the primary goal of the breeding program. In over 25 years of breeding the same bloodline, for 12 generations now, I have learned you can breed dogs that will do about anything you want, if you want it bad enough. I have so few problems with deer that this just is not a number one priority for me. And we have a LOT of deer here, just like in Alabama.

[Brian@BlackdirtBeagles]

my breeding objective is not to breed trash free beagles. i breed for brains, nose, stamina, and mouth. maybe the reason i dont have much (none really) trash problems is due to the fact that my dogs have brains and know what they are supposed to do. i would say that if guy wanted to only concentrate and breed for 1 main trait (no trash for example) that it would be fairly easy to get there. why would it be any different than breeding for say a bawl mouth or maybe for 13" size? by breeding for only this one trait i imagine that you would not have a "complete" dog, but if your main objective was the one trait then you would be satisfied. people say: come here (their state) if you think your dogs are deer proof and see what happens, well you know what? why dont you come here to me (bureau co. , IL) and see how many deer we got (and coyote and fox). if my dogs dont run one of the tens of thousands of IL deer we have , then why would they like out of state deer? dont really make sense to me, but neither does this whole topic. if i said that i get mostly 15" black and tan dogs in my line, no one would have said anything about that, but if a guy says his dogs (bloodline) doesnt run deer for the most part, it starts a big post of people saying no it cant be true . as i was typing this, i tried to think of the last time one of my line ran a deer, and i know it has been over 2 years (and many dogs) because i bought a new shocker 2 years ago and have yet to use it for trash running. i guess since it cant be due to my breeding then i must be the luckiest beaglers in the midwest .

[AlabamaSwamper]

I believe that you two are great handlers and trainers. I respect that of you guys and I listen to everything that folks like you have to say. That is fact for sure. I know how easy it is to get a dog to run deer, I grew up doing it. Like I said on RHO, it ain't putting a line down because they all do it. THere just is no gene that tells a dog to run a deer or run a rabbit. I also agree with your statement Blackdirt. Your dogs have brains and after being well trained they know what to run. I'm just saying that if you sold them dogs to a deer hunter as pups, they would be running deer in no time. That is a knock on that line, it is nature and what they are trained to do. I had one dog that never showed any interest in deer until just a couple of months ago. He is three and has jumped and even went to other dogs that were running them and never acted like he wanted to run them. He would come back and he had never been broke. Then one day, he ran one. He didn't go far, about 15 feet but I would have swore that he would not run one til that day. I doubt he does again but he did that once. I went hunting with bunnyseeker once and we jumped about 30 deer out of one thicket, no dogs took them but I think we was lucky. I try to do like most and keep my pups away from deer as much as possible. I don't want them to even smell one but its so hard around here. I guess I didn't write it the right way and I'm sorry for that. Not meant to rustle any feathers but the day I see a line that won't take a deer if trained to take a deer, then and only then will I believe it.

[DarrinG]

I'm gonna havta side with Al-Swamper on this one!

[FullCry]

Howdy folks,I have to agree with ol swamper to and not cause I'm blessed to be born and raised in the south either,it's just partly my opinion to.A couple things I've noticed here in Alabama.....not saying it's any worse here but when the deer are rutting......dang I've seen dogs that people swore would never run a deer do it.I have some broke dogs now but they are what I call semi-broke untill they are dead and then they're broke.And another thing.......since I don't have a whole lot of places to hunt I do hunt some places with very few rabbits and a whole lot of deer,coyote,bobcat,armidillo,etc.I have found when hunting young dogs in a place like this if one doesn't jump a rabbit in a hour it might be wise to move on somewhere else.I also have had some invitations to hunt places..........and always according to the landlord it's loaded with rabbits and alot of times theres not very many there because a landlord that doesn't really rabbit hunt but probably deer and turkey hunts will see one dang bunny and heck the place is covered.In closing I will say I have hunted my po ol pack in some good hunting spots loaded with rabbits but I have also hunted them in some rabbitless holes for two hours with out getting a rabbit up but they didn't run any trash that day so I was proud.We just soon they run em anyway to give us a chance to work on em if their going to do it.Take care all........FullCry