blodlines getting started.

[SilverZuk]

Here's an interesting read:
http://www.baldeaglebeagles.com/naminginfo.html

Would you say these are Patch hounds?
Apparently a big fight occured over the use of the name and AKC thought differently.

I am not saying that AKC rules are omnipotent, but I do agree with their decision on this one.

[Sandy Valley]

I don't really think there was a "big fight" of any kind, Mike Capozzi took over Willet's kennel and he felt that there were some using the name "patch" that may have only had a little patch in the pedigree, he had the kennel name registered, so it can no longer be used. Regardless, people with pure patches still put the name patch in there, they are just more creative about it.

[SilverZuk]

Look at it like this.
You are selling [insert product].
You hand select the finest ingredients and components to make the product. You hand fit each one, you throw away the ones that aren't 100% perfect to your standards.

Your product becomes so well recognized that it becomes like Kleenex to tissue.
People are calling it Preacher's [product].

Now someone gets wise and copies you. They use the exact same ingredients, componentes, and process. They do not use the same selection process on the ingredients/components. The do not throw out the ones that don't meet your standards.

They put your name on it and sell it.
Is that your product?

A Branko hound only comes from the Branko Kennel. I don't care if both parents are Brankos.

You can call the pups Branko Bred, but they are not Branko hounds.
Try to put Branko as the first word in the registration papers. AKC feels the same way.

[SilverZuk]

Sorry for overstating the disagreement.
It is important that the original kennel names be protected so we, as buyers, recognize that this dog is directly from the kennel, or someone just slapped their name on it.

[Sandy Valley]

Yes, I agree, the name "Branko" or "Patch" is basically now copyrighted. But, I also think it's important to give credit to the line that they originated from. By putting a variation of the word patch into the pedigree of a patch hound whose ancestors are all patch hounds, is simply a way to distinguish it from others. If this was not done, it would get very confusing-at least within the patch line. JMO

[Duke]

I would only add a fine adjustment or difference to the discussion. The name of a Kennel ie;Branko refers to dogs bred and sold by the Branko Kennel and could be of more than one line. For example Cress Kennel has two lines one out of his old red dogs like Tracker and the other I believe is derived from Rocket.

A line that becomes POPULAR is USUALLY started with an EXCEPTIONAL hound and can take the name of the Kennel or the Hound. Turbo, BlueBack, ect.... A renowned line can also be produced in a kennel by the cross of two exceptional hounds and would probably end up with the name of the Kennel. It is the carrying on of the GENETIC CODE or BLOOD of the EXCEPTIONAL HOUND or RELATED HOUNDS that carries on the line, not ownership.

To sum it up a LINE can be carried forward long after the hound is dead and the kennel he came from ceases to exist as in the case of the SPICERS, as long as the line or genetic code is carried forward. A KENNEL can have SEVERAL DIFFERENT BLOOD LINES some of those not originating from their kennels, if the blood or genetic code is being carried forward from that line. Only the Kennel Owner has the right to the KENNEL NAME, but if HE SELLS PUPS from HIS LINE and a person that TRUELY carries on the genetic code or blood, that person CAN HAVE THAT LINE.

[SilverZuk]

Very true Duke, and well put.

Turbo is good example of that.
Granted they are not Branko dogs, they are turbo bloodline.
So I was thinking more of kennel names opposed to bloodlines.

[Plowboy]

The Patch deal didnot start in 2001, Mike Yates told me when Willet was alive & breeding even back in the 50's & 60's that he couldn't use Patch in his without getting permission from Willet, he used Pache in his early dogs & thats what I use today. A fee has to be paid to keep the name exclusive so when Willet died it wasn't paid for a while until Capozzio started doing it again. Thats what Mr. Yates told me. It really doesn't matter to me what you call them, its all in how they perform.

Plowboy

[denny606]

i am going to wade in on this oneand qoute Dave fishers book on rabbit hunting and the chapter on the origin of american beagles and of the patch bloodline in particular. Here goes aman named willet randallstarted breeding beaglesalittle after 1896 and out of his dogscame adog named Forest Patch ,it is known that Randall bred to this hound several tjmes and it was the foundation of the patch hounds of today.it is interesting to note that forest was a white hound with a dark patch on his back and dark ears with a white stripe runing down his muzzle and forehead 'while todays patch hound is typicaly lemon and white ,no doubt the result of years of out crossing. now that is what research i've done on patch hounds has shown me but if you want to see for your self try to find the book wilderness patchwork by willet randall,or rabbit hunting by dave fisher. hope this helps some preacher , Denny

[Pine Mt Beagles]

PREACHER
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.BUT SEE IT A LITTLE DIFFERENT.I DON'T BREED MUCH BUT.IF SOME ONE BUY'S 2-PUPS FROM ME THEY WILL BE NAMED PINE MT #1 AND #2 AND THEY BREED THEM. THEY WILL HAVE THE SAME BLOOD AS DOG 1 AND 2 BUT I DID NOT BREED THEM .THEY ARE NOT PINE MT BRED.I HAD NO INPUT IN CHOOSING THE SIRE OR DAM AND MY NAME WILL NOT APPEAR AS BREEDER ON THE PAPERS.I DON'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM BUT SOME OF THE BIG NAME BREEDERS SELL PUPS AND PEOPLE BREED THEM AND SAY I HAVE SO AND SO BRED PUP BECAUSE THEY SELL BETTER .J.M.O. P.S. HILLY DO SOMETHING
KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

[bill (flint river )]

i agree with MT. i think u can say u have there blood flowing through your kennel but dont have the right to name a hound using there name. but patch hounds some how made a weird turn as it is the only bloodline were u see the breed in almost every hound. i dont see pine mt northern hare scooby. or branko northern hare shaggy. never thought about it. but when i reg. these 2 6 month old patch hound i will say patch in there also. but when i reg. these 2 femal i wont say northern hare.

i can easly confuse my self. so i can only imagine what i can do to others...lol

[Pine Mt Beagles]

BILL
YOU GOT ME CONFUSED BUT THAT DON'T TAKE MUCH,,,I HAVE NAMED SOME DOGS AFTER THE ORIGINAL LINE WITH MY KENNEL NAME .THE REASON IS SO IF I SEE IT BACK IN A PED... LATER I WOULD RECOGNIZE IT.PETE YOUNG DID AN INTERESTING TURN WITH THE LITTER HE BRED OUT OF PINE MT CHESTER AND PINE MT SPIRIT...HE NAMED THE PUPS STONEY RUN PINE MT .SO MY PUP'S NAME IS STONEY RUN PINE MT PEARL IF I SEE THAT DOG IN A FEW YEARS I WILL KNOW IT IS OUT OF 2- PINE MT DOGS BRED BY PETE.I THINK IT WAS A GOOD IDEA J.M.O.

KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

[Duke]

If I sell a pup and they want to name it after one of my hounds or my kennel, I PERSONALLY have no problem with it. It is a good way to track your line and lets others see the line of hounds you are producing.

[jlboomer]

I go with you on this rufus. I like the patch bloodline but if im breeding a rasing a litter i will name it L&L Lingarpatch? what ever the name. The L&L lets people know it was breed by me at my kennel. the Lingarpatch part lets them know that is has bloodlines tracing back to willets stock. In a few years i will call it my line when i get it worked out and start getting the type of hound i want on a regualar basis But i don't call them patch line they have the patch blood but willet may not have seen fit to breed them the way i do.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

DUKE
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT EITHER I TAKE IT AS A COMPLIMENT.......J M O


PINE MT BEAGLES