blodlines getting started.

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

i know the patch bloodline started many yrs ago.not sure what dogs were crossed that made it i heard something about bluecap amybe not sure.ok another big one is branko .. so branko started by crossing something to make what he would eventually call branko bloodline...now it seems a dog can do good and they call it a bloodline like turbo....lucyvan little man.....ranger dan.....just to kinda give u an idea i just dont see how folks call it a bloodline off one dog. am i missing something>?wasnt turbo a branko dog?/i know many good patch dogs have came along but none that i know of anyhow has tried to make another bloodline off one dog>?? whats up??

[SilverZuk]

We had this discussion a while back on another board.

It is really up to you.

If I take two dogs out of the dogs for sale section and start breeding.
At what point is it the "Silverzuk Line"

I could claim the first litter of pups as "SilverZuk" and register them with that name. Though I may recognize them as that, most people would call them "XXXX bred" because the "XXXX" in their pedigree is much more popular than the first generation Silverzuk that has accomplished nothing.

I can take one dog named Silverzuk, win every title there is to win.
People who breed to the Silverzuk dog will say the pups are "Silverzuk bred". Even though it was one exceptional dog, not a bloodline.
Dogs like this that come to mind are "Ace in the hole", "blueback", "Turbo", "Ombre" dogs (which are referring to a dog not a line).

People will take dogs from this silverzuk and make crosses. After a while
and breed two dogs that both have silverzuk in the pedigree. They will say "Silverzuk bred top and bottom".

Long after the silverzuk dog is dead, some people may be pulling as many dogs with Silverzuk in the pedigree into their kennels and saying they are Silverzuk hounds. Similar to what is happened with Patch, Gay, and other old lines where the original breeder of the line has stopped breeding or passed away.

In my opinion having your own line is not hard. Having people recognize your line requires exceptional results and/or very consistent results is the hard part.
You have to breed dogs from original stock and keep that stock as your line whether you line breed or outcross. Those dogs of original stock are your line.

A bloodline really isn't noted unless they are exceptional performers and the bloodline consistently produces good dogs.

There is no set number of generations in my book. Others may differ in opinion.

[Greg H]

I believe a bloodline is only considered a bloodline when every dog being produced is of like kind. Color, manner, size and all of the hunting attributes are reproduced consistantly, generation after generation. Now that doesn't mean they can't be improved on, but the base breeding is still there.

For instance if you started breeding dogs with 5 toes. Once dogs are consistanly being produced with 5 toes, you got yourself a bloodline.

[mdbeagler]

A prime example would be the White River dogs,
that bloodline is based on a cross of just 2 dogs.
Lulu and Michael

[steer creek beagles]

what do you think of them white river dogs.

[gus]

If you made the cross it is your line IMO. If you buy a Branko dog from Canada and cross it with a Fulcount bitch from NY are the offspring Branko or Fulcount? You made the cross.

[tom summers]

MHO
Blood line> When hounds pedigree shows same cross hounds in sire and dam.

Cross is when a breeding is made from unrelated or distant related. A blood line starts from a cross but does not become a line until generations are traced back showing smae hounds.

[mdbeagler]

what do you think of them white river dogs.

A lot of people like them, not my style of dog.

[swamp boy]

Preacher i think you are confussed. Are you sure a patch is a bloodline.

[hillbilly]

i think swampboy has got it; after all confused,preacher and patch hounds in the same post......seems like things are adden up!!!!!!



hillbilly

[Duke]

I personally do not feel that if I, you or anyone takes two hounds and crosses them the resulting hound is a bloodline. It can be the start of a bloodline, if the hound turns out to be outstanding and shows to be a reproducer.

The word Bloodline itself explains it. It is a LINE(family from generation to generation) of hounds where the BLOOD(genentic code) is from the same or related source.

I think that to become a line it probably needs to be reproduction of the same family, or gene pool for at least 3 generations. That being said, you could have a bloodline of worthless trash eating dogs all of the same line and it too would be a Bloodline if the source was the same or similar in all the hounds.

Personally I think most here are looking for a good to great bloodline and strive to reproduce the great traits of one great hound, or several great hounds in the case of the Brankos.

I use only the Brankos for an example so lets not get into a which line is better debate, the discussion is simply what constitutes a BLOODLINE.

[SilverZuk]

You are right Duke, but many people refer to a specific dog as a bloodline.
The people say "He is turbo bred" because turbo shows up in the pedigree some place. They fail to mention the other 15 dogs in the pedigree because they are unknowns.

If I remember correctly, you are breeding from Blue Back and making it a line. Spicer's Blue Back was a dog, at what point did it become a line?

At what point does it stop being line?
For example Gay hounds, the man who originally bred Gay hounds is now deceased. In my opinion, the Gay hounds stopped being produced because the man who created the breeding program is now gone with no provision to carry the breeding program on under his terms. He didn't train anyone to continue the breeding program or leave instructions exactly what he was looking for.

So when I see Gay bred hounds for sale, it is true they are Gay bred, but they are not Gay hounds.

I see people breeding two full blooded Branko Hounds, but the off spring are really not Branko hounds because it didn't come from Branko's breeding program.

I answered my own question, the hound is not from a line unless it comes from that specific breeding program.

Just because I have two dogs of the same bloodline, won't make their pups that bloodline. They will be my own bloodline because my idea of a good cross, may have been two culls not worthy of breeding by the original breeder of the bloodline.

There is a definite answer to what makes a bloodline, but most people don't recognize it. They use what I posted in the second post of this thread.

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

swamp boy and hilly .. BITE ME.,, duke i liked ur post very much and agree ,,i se what ur saying silver but dont agree... if its 2 hounds bred from the same line even tho the orignal breeder didnt do it still that line if it came from that has and has been kept true to the line!

[SilverZuk]

So you are saying if you get two Branko dogs and breed them they are Branko hounds?

Try putting Branko on the papers, I think the AKC disagrees.
Ask the owner of the Branko kennel to see if he thinks they are "Branko bred".

Your idea of a good cross may not be his idea of a good cross.
It didn't take place in his breeding program, he won't want his name on it.
If the dog didn't come from that breeding program, the pups are not "Branko". The parents are, but the pups aren't.
Sorry, it wasn't produced by the owner of Branko kennels, then it is not a Branko hound.

Patch hounds are a perfect example. There are many people still running hounds that are line bred from original Patch hounds. People call them Patch hounds, but in actuality, they are not because they didn't come from the Patch kennel. IIRC, there have been lawsuits about this exact thing. That is why AKC will let you put variations like "Patches, patchy, etc." on the papers, but not Patch. Same goes for other AKC registered kennels.

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

hilly and swamp bite me! duke i liked ur post..silver i see what ur saying but disagree..if u cross 2 dogs from the same line of the original breeedeer then its the same as him doin it pretty much ..as long as the now breeder uses good judgement on the hounds it should keep getting the line even better!