boldstroke pups
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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bullboy
boldstroke
to add to the subject the pup i have when i picked her up the breeder wanted his prefix or kennel name on it but asked what i wanted to name it her name is- boldstroke sky i dont see a problem with this because the blood line name is on it and i think that the breeder should get a little credit a well as gill if i breed her to a boldstroke male and that is what i will use the pup would be akc reg thunderstruck boldstroke---- and i think i should get some of the credit as well as gill plus you have the name reconigation of boldstroke i own reg dairy cattle and we can noy change a breeders name but when i reg it my n farm name is on it but i can embryo flush it and sell them and the person that buys them gets to use his name and i dont get any i feel and i have talked to gill about this a little mainly about one dog but still in my mind the breeder that owns the dogs and breeds them should get some credit along with the line if you go and use a stud do you put there name on it not really i think you would want to put boldstroke or branko or haunted hill in there just because name reckognation thanks bull boy ps hada great eve found myself a full linebred malerunning dog
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jackrabbit
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 7:10 pm
- Location: statewide, Indiana
- Contact:
man i shouldnt do this....lo. but the devil made me
two points i have to make, and maybe not better late than never...lol
one.) i have ran with boldstroke dogs a lot with tom rusinack. i have said before they are hard hunting dogs that dont give up. the only slow thing about them is tom himself.... hee hee.... sorry tom couldnt help that either. Boldstroke dogs are fun to hunt with, and most of the ARHA, and midwest beagle gundog folks know them cause tom sometimes runs those formats.
the comments made by that judge fellow reminds me of one judge that was mixed up in a point fixing scheme down in Berea, Ky. a couple years back.....lol. but that problem was taken care of too. and so no reason to name names again.
jackrabbit
one.) i have ran with boldstroke dogs a lot with tom rusinack. i have said before they are hard hunting dogs that dont give up. the only slow thing about them is tom himself.... hee hee.... sorry tom couldnt help that either. Boldstroke dogs are fun to hunt with, and most of the ARHA, and midwest beagle gundog folks know them cause tom sometimes runs those formats.
the comments made by that judge fellow reminds me of one judge that was mixed up in a point fixing scheme down in Berea, Ky. a couple years back.....lol. but that problem was taken care of too. and so no reason to name names again.
jackrabbit
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muckbottom
Hello PWill,
You don't have to ask Mike Thoms about me , you can just ask me.As long as you answer one
Where do you think I started breeding dogs? Actually where I started was with coon hounds,Walker dogs to be exact, And I watched and Listened to some people ( family) produce some pretty good hounds. That there is where it started. Family restrictions (wife, twins) kind of put a damper on the all night hunt so I started in with beagles you know coon hounds, beagle hounds you get it.
As far as me selling all my dogs when I started running Boldstroke WRONG there are still some dogs back here that aren't Boldstroke.As a matter of fact I have a litter of pups thats not Boldstroke, should I name them Boldstroke? I probably should because if they turn out good I know who will say they told me to breed them,and i do have a couple Boldstroke dogs. .And there are more dogs coming in that aren't Boldstroke. The dogs that came here Boldstroke are still Boldstroke The dogs I breed aren't. I thought that was alright seeing I have a female out here that is out of a boldstroke male and a different female but its still called a boldstroke dog.
You are right however I have breed some Crain dogs and called them Muckbottom, I figure I had something to do with it I breed them started them and ran them.And guess what know one told me how to do it. Nobody is telling me what dogs to breed. I'll breed them,I'll name them, I'll feed them,and I'll call them what I want. If you or where ever you are getting your info don't like it SO
You really have to care about the person talking about you, and there opinion for it to affect you.There are some whose opinion really matters to me, but in this case NO. Some Boldstroke dogs where sold because there was a little to much of the same breeding here. I have been known to buy 3 pups out or a litter or close relation start them all and keep what I want. Some were sold because for some reason AKC would not register them and some were sold for other reasons. Now for my ? Where you getting your info? If you want more give me a call. My wife will give you my cell phone # because I'm usually running dogs.Ask me your ? I'm pretty straight up. And don't need someone else to do my talking for me. Have a good night and God bless you all.
You don't have to ask Mike Thoms about me , you can just ask me.As long as you answer one
Where do you think I started breeding dogs? Actually where I started was with coon hounds,Walker dogs to be exact, And I watched and Listened to some people ( family) produce some pretty good hounds. That there is where it started. Family restrictions (wife, twins) kind of put a damper on the all night hunt so I started in with beagles you know coon hounds, beagle hounds you get it.As far as me selling all my dogs when I started running Boldstroke WRONG there are still some dogs back here that aren't Boldstroke.As a matter of fact I have a litter of pups thats not Boldstroke, should I name them Boldstroke? I probably should because if they turn out good I know who will say they told me to breed them,and i do have a couple Boldstroke dogs. .And there are more dogs coming in that aren't Boldstroke. The dogs that came here Boldstroke are still Boldstroke The dogs I breed aren't. I thought that was alright seeing I have a female out here that is out of a boldstroke male and a different female but its still called a boldstroke dog.
You are right however I have breed some Crain dogs and called them Muckbottom, I figure I had something to do with it I breed them started them and ran them.And guess what know one told me how to do it. Nobody is telling me what dogs to breed. I'll breed them,I'll name them, I'll feed them,and I'll call them what I want. If you or where ever you are getting your info don't like it SO
You really have to care about the person talking about you, and there opinion for it to affect you.There are some whose opinion really matters to me, but in this case NO. Some Boldstroke dogs where sold because there was a little to much of the same breeding here. I have been known to buy 3 pups out or a litter or close relation start them all and keep what I want. Some were sold because for some reason AKC would not register them and some were sold for other reasons. Now for my ? Where you getting your info? If you want more give me a call. My wife will give you my cell phone # because I'm usually running dogs.Ask me your ? I'm pretty straight up. And don't need someone else to do my talking for me. Have a good night and God bless you all.-
Mike Thoms
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:27 pm
I'm glad were having this discussion, that's why I put a post on to begin with, to talk about this very subject. I'm not sure my opinion is right, it's good to hear other different opinions. I always felt that if a breeder sold a pup and wanted their name on it, the buyer should do that out of respect. If no request was made, I felt the breeder didn't want or really care if his name was on it. In other breeds, most breeders register their kennel name so others can't use it, but require pups from them to carry their name along with rest of the dog's name. The common thought is that if someone uses your kennel name beyond that they are using YOUR name and reputation to make money. There seems to be a big difference in beagles though and that's what I'm curious about. I've read recently about taking original kennel names off dogs and that is totally disrespectful. If you buy a pup the breeder should make the call. The real twist though is how long do you keep using that name? And more importantly, why would any breeder want you to? If my name is Branko for example, why would I want 50 people selling my stock with my name? If you weren't there helping me in the beginning, don't come cash in now. Only the people who have completed this monumental task know the time, money, study and hard culling that go into producing a consistent line. That's why I've always felt that it was almost like stealing to use someone's kennel name on a dog they didn't breed. That's just my opinion and I'd like to hear some others, especially from the guys who mixed dogs to form a line. I'm not knocking anyone at any level, I just want your opinions. Another thought along with that is: (names hypothetical so no one gets up in a dander) If Dick is a breeder with an established line and Joe buys 3 pups from him, crosses it to 3 pups from Tim's line and they aren't as expected, are Dick or Tim at fault? Should Joe Claim that his mixed pups are from either line? I don't think so. Let's say Joe culls all these mixed pups and tries four more lines until he finds two which give him what he wants when combined with Dick's line. He's already bought 18 good line bred pups and raised, started and evaluated them AND their offspring. He's talked to these line's breeders to learn all about their line. Then he has to go about getting consistency in these pups. After all this, hasn't he earned the right to put his own kennel name on these dogs? Should Dick get the credit for these dogs? Or be ridiculous enough to claim he made the dogs AND the man who did all this? Dick may claim the credit, but as beaglers are we going to be blind enough to give credit to Dick? Dick has his own line, which is most certainly not the same, that he can show the world and rightfully take credit for, why would he need to take credit for another line with all his knowledge, insight and experience? I don't believe he should, what do you think? I grow tomatoes for my mom for her spaghetti sauce and I'll tell you what, if you were there when I said it was my tomatoes that made her sauce what it is, you'd see an 82 year old woman throw a headlock on a 6'5', 280 lb. man so fast I'd be embarrased. LOL Snowshoe, sorry about the mixup from before. PWILL, I saw these dogs run also and I would agree with Jim, some were real swingers and some lacked foot. I wouldn't talk about something unless I've seen it with my own eyes. BJK, we may have decent dogs in Ohio, but we have some downright sorry Barbecue. HAVE FORKS, WILL TRAVEL. And I know for a fact those dogs can catch a parked car, ease up on yourself man
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DON
kennel names
If I buy two dogs from silver creek kennels, I would never use silver creek name as a PREFIX, on the papers unless given permission from the kennel owner/breeder.
if I buy two silver creek dogs and cross these two dogs and ,silver creek is not my kennel name, I would never attach Silver Creek as a prefix in the offsprings name. Even if the kennel owner of silver creek said its ok, which I dont know of anyone ever doing that. But the reason for them not doing this is because "they'' (silver creek kennel owner) is not the breeder.
the kennel name as a prefix represents the kennel owner.
when I study a pedigree and I see Kingwood as a prefix in a dogs name, or Knee High, Shady Creek,Branko. I know who was the breeder of that dog. If you try using some of these kennel names as a prefix in your own pups ,even if the pups are descendant of one of these kennels you might learn you made a bad mistake
if I buy two silver creek dogs and cross these two dogs and ,silver creek is not my kennel name, I would never attach Silver Creek as a prefix in the offsprings name. Even if the kennel owner of silver creek said its ok, which I dont know of anyone ever doing that. But the reason for them not doing this is because "they'' (silver creek kennel owner) is not the breeder.
the kennel name as a prefix represents the kennel owner.
when I study a pedigree and I see Kingwood as a prefix in a dogs name, or Knee High, Shady Creek,Branko. I know who was the breeder of that dog. If you try using some of these kennel names as a prefix in your own pups ,even if the pups are descendant of one of these kennels you might learn you made a bad mistake
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Alabama John
- Posts: 2116
- Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:56 pm
- Location: Pinson, Alabama
Mike, I think you are forgetting the flip side.
A lot of breeders aand even big name kennels that sell pups, or, even worse started dogs, would rather you not use their name on some of the pups or dogs they sell as it would save them a lot of embarrasment and possibly cost them future sales.
All kennels have pups and dogs they would like to see just disappear.
When you insist, and give your very convincing sales spill about being loyal and putting their name on all of those dogs, it is hard for them to be honest and tell you not too and still look like they sold you a first class pup. Maybe you could have them devide the pups in two piles, the "keep the kennel name" ones and the "lose the kennel name" ones and charge less for the latter.
Maybe all should be honest and ask the kennel owner what he wants you to do with the pup or dog you pick out for yourself without pressuring him and then do his wishes whichever they are without a grilling or explanation and I'll bet if they will be honest with you, their decision will vary with the pup or dog sold.
A lot of breeders aand even big name kennels that sell pups, or, even worse started dogs, would rather you not use their name on some of the pups or dogs they sell as it would save them a lot of embarrasment and possibly cost them future sales.
All kennels have pups and dogs they would like to see just disappear.
When you insist, and give your very convincing sales spill about being loyal and putting their name on all of those dogs, it is hard for them to be honest and tell you not too and still look like they sold you a first class pup. Maybe you could have them devide the pups in two piles, the "keep the kennel name" ones and the "lose the kennel name" ones and charge less for the latter.
Maybe all should be honest and ask the kennel owner what he wants you to do with the pup or dog you pick out for yourself without pressuring him and then do his wishes whichever they are without a grilling or explanation and I'll bet if they will be honest with you, their decision will vary with the pup or dog sold.
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Mike Thoms
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:27 pm
PWill, I REALLY wanted to let this go, but when untruths are being put out there and I know better, I have to say something. I guess that's a flaw in my upbringing. I will apologize in advance to Jim for stirring this crap up again, but I have to, sorry. I don't know where your information about Jim is coming from, but it is false.I didn't hear it from a third party, I SAW it. I can look back at old pedigrees of more than one of the Walker dogs I've owned and see dogs with the Brown family kennel name and the titles they held. I had no idea who Jim Brown was and didn't meet him until 8 years ago, but someone in my dog's pedigrees felt they were pretty tough hounds and bred to them. I have known Jim longer than Gil and his ideas on breeding beagles haven't changed one bit since he met Gil, only the dogs have changed. Everyone you talk to in life teaches you something, but I can absolutely assure you that Jim Brown did not learn most of anything from Gil Davis (well, maybe how many pups you can raise under a blocked up Ford). I have heard you say this about Jim and I have seen Gil write this about Phil Dixon and anyone else he feels has something decent from him. In the next breath he says to beware of imposters. I assume these are people who he feels don't have decent dogs. Why would anyone have to claim he was solely responsible for someone else's success? Especially someone as well known as Gil. Phil and Jim are both a little puzled by you and Gil's claim although they don't want to stir the pot. Jim didn't have to tell me anything about what he's done, I"ve seen it myself. I have seen at least 6 lines come into Jim's kennels in his search for a good combination. Pups he bought carried their breeder's name and pups he raised carried the Muckbottom name. That was back before he met Gil. By the way he doesn't require or ask pup buyers to put his name on them. He is in this for good dogs, not sales. I also know by seeing that he did NOT sell all of his dogs when he found 'boldstroke", hardly.He did sell off two lines of dogs, but not even close to all his dogs. He is outcrossing "boldstroke" dogs right now. I have seen the pups and the papers. His dogs are absolutely not 100% "boldstroke" and that percentage goes down every year. In fact the only "boldstroke" he has left in his kennels are dogs he bought from someone other than Gil. I wouldn't call that riding someone's coattails. The only name changing he did to any "boldstroke" dog was to put the initials MBK after the name "boldstroke". Does that seem like hiding the dog's identity to you? I agree totally that Jim had little to do with advancing the boldstroke line. He isn't trying to advance Gil's line. Just run his own string like most all the honest, hardrunning guys on here are. I don't know how you found out what you THINK you know about Jim, but don't trust that person. If you really think what you said is the truth you've been lied to. I guess if Jim is really as ignorant as you say, just let him wither and dry up, which he will unless he's good. But if he's good and prospers, just tell people Gil sold someone the dog that Jim bought to be the grandsire on the dam side of his latest champion. Put down the guys who spend their weekends in clubhouses badmouthing everybody, who "think" their dogs have had all their shots and who only consider a day good after their third puppy sale. Leave alone the little bread & butter guys who look forward to getting their magazines every month, who treat their dogs like family, who shake hands and mean it after a trial, who think beagling teaches kids about life, who look forward to rabbit season the day after it closes, who have a hobby bordering on obsession and truly love the sound of a hound. These guys won't downtalk anybody and mind their own business until attacked. There are far many more of us than there are of Gils in the world and we're getting tired of being put down. For Jim and for all of us little people whether grade, AKC, UKC, ARHA, PKC or strictly hunters, I won't let lies be spread so people who don't know can believe them, even if you think they are true.
First of all I didn`t call anyone ignorant or anything else. I just asked a few questions and made a few statements.
I feel the statements I made are true and I stand behind them 100%.
But if you will answer a few more questions, Which Boldstroke dogs didn`t have enough foot? Why were they sold? Jim says one thing, too much close blood and Mike says another , They swing and didn`t have enough foot. Doesn`t really matter anyway.
I just feel that alot of people take advantage of a good thing and a good person. If you can live with it I can. I really don`t like to be confrontational but I had to get this off my chest. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Paul
P.S. As far as raising pups under a blocked up Ford, they must of been great pups for 2 reasons 1. Jim sure bought some of them and still "outcrossing" them today 2. people are standing in line to buy some of these strong, linebred, pure Boldstrokes hounds that make alot of people turn green with envy.
I feel the statements I made are true and I stand behind them 100%.
But if you will answer a few more questions, Which Boldstroke dogs didn`t have enough foot? Why were they sold? Jim says one thing, too much close blood and Mike says another , They swing and didn`t have enough foot. Doesn`t really matter anyway.
I just feel that alot of people take advantage of a good thing and a good person. If you can live with it I can. I really don`t like to be confrontational but I had to get this off my chest. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Paul
P.S. As far as raising pups under a blocked up Ford, they must of been great pups for 2 reasons 1. Jim sure bought some of them and still "outcrossing" them today 2. people are standing in line to buy some of these strong, linebred, pure Boldstrokes hounds that make alot of people turn green with envy.
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Mike Thoms
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:27 pm
PWILL,
Like I said already, if you truly believe what you've said (and I think you must), you've been lied to, flat out. I'm just telling you what I've seen with my own eyes. We can argue forever and you don't have to ever accept the facts. This is America where we allow people to burn flags, Denounce God, marry their same sex and in general disagree, that's your right. I won't answer any questions about specific dogs on this forum. They are all owned now by others and I won't do that to their owners. They weren't bad dogs, just not as good as some others.
I guess the difference in Jim and my answers is due to the fact that Jim is being more diplomatic, not wanting to hurt anyone who owned the dogs now. He tends to stand behind the few people who get dogs or puppies from him, not in front. I on the other hand was here to let everyone else know that your statements were lies, even if you don't know they are. I never once thought of trying to change your mind, I know how hard it is to undo the work of another dog trainer. I'm pretty sure you asked me about these dogs, so I told you what I saw in them. Jim has asked me to stop answering questions about his former dogs on this forum. He also asked me to give you his email address and have you email him so you can swap phone numbers and talk. That email address is MUCKBOTTOM@MSN.com. He will be glad to give anyone a full breakdown of every dog he's sold, but be ready for the truth. Ask him yourself, he owned them, I only saw them run twenty or thirty times.
I ALSO feel that people take advantage of good people. I sleep pretty well at night knowing I didn't have to lie to anyone. I wouldn't live with myself any other way. Sometimes confrontation is good (although always unpleasant) because there are times it is the only way to expose something. I don't want any enemies, I just wish you would call Jim and get the facts from him. If you don't, then you REALLY don't want to know. IF you don't and keep talking everyone else on here will know they've been lies. Well, I've got to go, there's more bird dogs to work til dark and then beagles after that. Ask Jim on the phone, don't ask me.
MIKE THOMS
P.S. 1.I know I told you that Jim sold all the dogs he bought from Gil, so they may be being outcrossed, I don't really know. When you call Jim ask him who he sold them to so you can get a hold of them to find out about their breeding programs.
2. I've seen enough Boldstroke dogs to know there WILL be some outstanding hounds that WILL make people envious. I'm glad business is so good also and I hope you sell all the pups you want to sell. I hope everyone is successful no matter what their goals! Take Care
Like I said already, if you truly believe what you've said (and I think you must), you've been lied to, flat out. I'm just telling you what I've seen with my own eyes. We can argue forever and you don't have to ever accept the facts. This is America where we allow people to burn flags, Denounce God, marry their same sex and in general disagree, that's your right. I won't answer any questions about specific dogs on this forum. They are all owned now by others and I won't do that to their owners. They weren't bad dogs, just not as good as some others.
I guess the difference in Jim and my answers is due to the fact that Jim is being more diplomatic, not wanting to hurt anyone who owned the dogs now. He tends to stand behind the few people who get dogs or puppies from him, not in front. I on the other hand was here to let everyone else know that your statements were lies, even if you don't know they are. I never once thought of trying to change your mind, I know how hard it is to undo the work of another dog trainer. I'm pretty sure you asked me about these dogs, so I told you what I saw in them. Jim has asked me to stop answering questions about his former dogs on this forum. He also asked me to give you his email address and have you email him so you can swap phone numbers and talk. That email address is MUCKBOTTOM@MSN.com. He will be glad to give anyone a full breakdown of every dog he's sold, but be ready for the truth. Ask him yourself, he owned them, I only saw them run twenty or thirty times.
I ALSO feel that people take advantage of good people. I sleep pretty well at night knowing I didn't have to lie to anyone. I wouldn't live with myself any other way. Sometimes confrontation is good (although always unpleasant) because there are times it is the only way to expose something. I don't want any enemies, I just wish you would call Jim and get the facts from him. If you don't, then you REALLY don't want to know. IF you don't and keep talking everyone else on here will know they've been lies. Well, I've got to go, there's more bird dogs to work til dark and then beagles after that. Ask Jim on the phone, don't ask me.
MIKE THOMS
P.S. 1.I know I told you that Jim sold all the dogs he bought from Gil, so they may be being outcrossed, I don't really know. When you call Jim ask him who he sold them to so you can get a hold of them to find out about their breeding programs.
2. I've seen enough Boldstroke dogs to know there WILL be some outstanding hounds that WILL make people envious. I'm glad business is so good also and I hope you sell all the pups you want to sell. I hope everyone is successful no matter what their goals! Take Care
I have talked with Jim, although he might not remember. I was going to get a Boldstroke pup from him , last year sometime. He told me then all of his Boldstrokes came from Gil and were great dogs , plenty of hunt, foot and so on. Now most did not make the grade, makes me wonder.
I have Jims e-mail and number and I will get in touch with him and at least get another veiw on this.
I`m sure Jim is a good guy and all but you posted on this thread which reads Boldstroke pups and praised him like he was the best thing since sliced bread when it came to these dogs or at least thats the way I took it. I just don`t like the though of people taking credit for something I feel they had little to do with. If I`m wrong , I`m wrong but thats the way I see it. This is America and we are free to disagree and believe what we want to beleive.
As far as me telling lies , well I don`t feel they are lies as I said before. If they are prove me wrong. As the old saying goes "Show me".
Paul
Beagle 101.. Don`t worry about starting anything you had nothing to do with this, if anyone should be sorry it would be the ones that took over your thread and made it what it is and for that I`m sorry. Also congradulations on getting your two Boldstroke pups I know they will make you proud.
I have Jims e-mail and number and I will get in touch with him and at least get another veiw on this.
I`m sure Jim is a good guy and all but you posted on this thread which reads Boldstroke pups and praised him like he was the best thing since sliced bread when it came to these dogs or at least thats the way I took it. I just don`t like the though of people taking credit for something I feel they had little to do with. If I`m wrong , I`m wrong but thats the way I see it. This is America and we are free to disagree and believe what we want to beleive.
As far as me telling lies , well I don`t feel they are lies as I said before. If they are prove me wrong. As the old saying goes "Show me".
Paul
Beagle 101.. Don`t worry about starting anything you had nothing to do with this, if anyone should be sorry it would be the ones that took over your thread and made it what it is and for that I`m sorry. Also congradulations on getting your two Boldstroke pups I know they will make you proud.
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New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
Well said Nate!
NYH.................................We need to talk e-mail your number to me again please..............NNYHILLBILLY1@aol.com.....I can call after 9pm if not a problem with you................Mike
NYH.................................We need to talk e-mail your number to me again please..............NNYHILLBILLY1@aol.com.....I can call after 9pm if not a problem with you................Mike
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
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BJK
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Gill Davis
Too much for me!
Jim Im so supprised at your comments- just 6 months ago you said When you buy one breed and they are out of all different mothers and father - yet, the same breed and they all make rabbit dogs you know your doing somethng right! Now all at once your speaki9ng of me saying watch what you buy!!!! thats only becouse fifty folks have called me with dogs they bought that have the third generation back there and all outcrossed other than that! then they want to call them boldstroke. I shared with you good hounds and this kind of talk is how you return the hard work and trying to help you I did.
I also know you bred two pure boldstroke hounds together about a year ago and you called me to tell me that every one made it and you couldn't believe it. You can't change the pedigree- and yes you can change the name but I worked hard to make them better and I only tried to share cause I certainly don't need any more great rabbit dogs. It hurts to see the time we spent discussing who I bred and also used outcrosses of the right kind and then brought them back to the true line. thats what I told you I did for years you agreed and you did spend a lot of time wanting to know.
You and I both know the way im doing it and what you are doing is what I have done for years but, you want to act like its not done here in the same way and yes You have mentioned the about the matches and the pure breedings you did and what I thought and I told you they would be great!!! THen you call later and say they were. SO, Why in the world would you take offense if someone breeds them so far back and tries to say its the same?
You said you bred dogs for years thats fine! butr, you also agreed with me at that time. I didn't say anything you should have ever tried to down grade me or disrespect what I did for your dogs and you don't have many outcrosses and you know it! I use the right one once in a while too! and you know that too! So I wasn't ever talking about you but, you sure tried to make all the help I gave you with the dogs I got you sound bad... and you didn't mention the reasons you sold your boldstroke dogs like you called and told me. a couple too short, or just not exactly enough mouth for more score in compitition. but, you let people to believe you had culls cause you said they didn't make the grade but, you didn't tell them they all made great rabbit dogs for hunting.
Of corse a couple may be shorter or maybe not blast in the mouth for the most score -- but, you told me they all made good rabbit dogs and told everyone they were the stars of the other kennels you sold them too.
I see you mentioned the dogs turning out are an act of god. but, buddy I worked at making them what they are and it took a ton of money and a load of years. the other guys with no name are guilty of lieing and thats why they take offense of it being pointed out! There are crooked judges!!! and there is a group that was good and was hard to catch! Ask Don Mccutchen he was the watchdog committie for years and He knows who they are and they are on this board and said some bad things.
I never mentioned any dogs names or put any others down.. I simply said I don't need anything else and I don't see I do!!!! Thanks to the long time work and dedication these dogs are doing so fine many don't and want to keep there blood name for one reason-----They like them better than sometimes 40 dogs they've tried.. that way others can find them and breed them back. This way the lines not extict!!!!! as many are. Now- If you don't know this happens from changing blood names you still have a lot to learn..
I really wish this stuff didn't get so cruel and out of hand- I sure had nothing to do with that! But, I have helped very many folks see what palnned consistent work and long term breeding for the same can do-- To the point I see others trying to be- little all the work and use these hounds for a different name and credit. But, behing all the best of anything and the most important part of any kind of building is a strong foundation. if thats not true than there are some very, very foolish people out there.
I tryed to help you Jim and did and YOU know it. ANd I did and you won't be able to hide your pedigree. so quit slinging you bad mouthing.
You have mis-understtod what I said when I say watch out for counterfit-- YOURS arn't and WOn;t be and you know why becouse you havent found better or if you do sell me all those you got from me!!!!!!!
I'll buy them and the ones you bred together and palced Muck bottom on I'll buy those too and even though I know the names is and will be changed I can show the pedigree and prove your doing nothing different than what you know I do!!!
Im real sorry too many of you fought- but as Jim even said if there wasn't a lot of contivercy about certain dogs than maybe this shows there not worth talking about. I and every person I know can't say that they arn't impresses with the MAN made work and aggression that they show. So- I ask you whats wrong with that?
I went through a devorse- she wanted everything and part of the dogs so yes, I thought to let them go once but I would never sell them all. But, thats no-ones buisiness the pain I went through.. and for some to talk bad-- What goes around comes around.
My wife left me when I was unable to walk and put another man in her bed- I hope that makes you happy.. I have nothing to feel guilty about and I believe in the work and and the hounds I made more than anything in the world cause they always did there best and it wasn't a freak accident it was know how..
Im supprised at some of you people and I simply wish you'd be better to one another... I don't need this kind of talk or back stabbing. and I certainly don't deserve it!
I can back up every statement I have ever made about these dogs and Im very willing to show it and the relatives---the few that went that have done so well it is hard to believe.
Im simply sharing some of the best hounds I have ever had the pleasure to run in my years of hunting and working on them. I don't need any more!!! But folks like them so well it seems they want to say I didn't do anything to make them a bit more than some have tried to do.
Now this isn't enough for you I have so many folks that know the hounds that want more pups LIKE YOU DID JIM!!! that I don't like this mud slinging I see. and some should be ashamed of themeselves for there unknowing rude comments. I can assure you that I do know some have done it cause I wouldn't sell certain dogs they wanted to them- So they got upset.. but smart breeders help folks get more from the same great ones as I DO!
I hope everyone can be as happy with there dogs as I am and all the others I know- and god bless and good luck.
I also know you bred two pure boldstroke hounds together about a year ago and you called me to tell me that every one made it and you couldn't believe it. You can't change the pedigree- and yes you can change the name but I worked hard to make them better and I only tried to share cause I certainly don't need any more great rabbit dogs. It hurts to see the time we spent discussing who I bred and also used outcrosses of the right kind and then brought them back to the true line. thats what I told you I did for years you agreed and you did spend a lot of time wanting to know.
You and I both know the way im doing it and what you are doing is what I have done for years but, you want to act like its not done here in the same way and yes You have mentioned the about the matches and the pure breedings you did and what I thought and I told you they would be great!!! THen you call later and say they were. SO, Why in the world would you take offense if someone breeds them so far back and tries to say its the same?
You said you bred dogs for years thats fine! butr, you also agreed with me at that time. I didn't say anything you should have ever tried to down grade me or disrespect what I did for your dogs and you don't have many outcrosses and you know it! I use the right one once in a while too! and you know that too! So I wasn't ever talking about you but, you sure tried to make all the help I gave you with the dogs I got you sound bad... and you didn't mention the reasons you sold your boldstroke dogs like you called and told me. a couple too short, or just not exactly enough mouth for more score in compitition. but, you let people to believe you had culls cause you said they didn't make the grade but, you didn't tell them they all made great rabbit dogs for hunting.
Of corse a couple may be shorter or maybe not blast in the mouth for the most score -- but, you told me they all made good rabbit dogs and told everyone they were the stars of the other kennels you sold them too.
I see you mentioned the dogs turning out are an act of god. but, buddy I worked at making them what they are and it took a ton of money and a load of years. the other guys with no name are guilty of lieing and thats why they take offense of it being pointed out! There are crooked judges!!! and there is a group that was good and was hard to catch! Ask Don Mccutchen he was the watchdog committie for years and He knows who they are and they are on this board and said some bad things.
I never mentioned any dogs names or put any others down.. I simply said I don't need anything else and I don't see I do!!!! Thanks to the long time work and dedication these dogs are doing so fine many don't and want to keep there blood name for one reason-----They like them better than sometimes 40 dogs they've tried.. that way others can find them and breed them back. This way the lines not extict!!!!! as many are. Now- If you don't know this happens from changing blood names you still have a lot to learn..
I really wish this stuff didn't get so cruel and out of hand- I sure had nothing to do with that! But, I have helped very many folks see what palnned consistent work and long term breeding for the same can do-- To the point I see others trying to be- little all the work and use these hounds for a different name and credit. But, behing all the best of anything and the most important part of any kind of building is a strong foundation. if thats not true than there are some very, very foolish people out there.
I tryed to help you Jim and did and YOU know it. ANd I did and you won't be able to hide your pedigree. so quit slinging you bad mouthing.
You have mis-understtod what I said when I say watch out for counterfit-- YOURS arn't and WOn;t be and you know why becouse you havent found better or if you do sell me all those you got from me!!!!!!!
I'll buy them and the ones you bred together and palced Muck bottom on I'll buy those too and even though I know the names is and will be changed I can show the pedigree and prove your doing nothing different than what you know I do!!!
Im real sorry too many of you fought- but as Jim even said if there wasn't a lot of contivercy about certain dogs than maybe this shows there not worth talking about. I and every person I know can't say that they arn't impresses with the MAN made work and aggression that they show. So- I ask you whats wrong with that?
I went through a devorse- she wanted everything and part of the dogs so yes, I thought to let them go once but I would never sell them all. But, thats no-ones buisiness the pain I went through.. and for some to talk bad-- What goes around comes around.
My wife left me when I was unable to walk and put another man in her bed- I hope that makes you happy.. I have nothing to feel guilty about and I believe in the work and and the hounds I made more than anything in the world cause they always did there best and it wasn't a freak accident it was know how..
Im supprised at some of you people and I simply wish you'd be better to one another... I don't need this kind of talk or back stabbing. and I certainly don't deserve it!
I can back up every statement I have ever made about these dogs and Im very willing to show it and the relatives---the few that went that have done so well it is hard to believe.
Im simply sharing some of the best hounds I have ever had the pleasure to run in my years of hunting and working on them. I don't need any more!!! But folks like them so well it seems they want to say I didn't do anything to make them a bit more than some have tried to do.
Now this isn't enough for you I have so many folks that know the hounds that want more pups LIKE YOU DID JIM!!! that I don't like this mud slinging I see. and some should be ashamed of themeselves for there unknowing rude comments. I can assure you that I do know some have done it cause I wouldn't sell certain dogs they wanted to them- So they got upset.. but smart breeders help folks get more from the same great ones as I DO!
I hope everyone can be as happy with there dogs as I am and all the others I know- and god bless and good luck.