Is Progresive pack merging into Little pack

[JIMMIE ABSHIRE]

I would love to see these dogs that you guys are talking about.
Run a rabbit check free for an hour or more.
That is flat out amazing running, I guess I need to get some dogs.

I've got a medium speed gip that flat burns through checks when the other dogs breaks down and I have never seen her run check free.
I have only had a handful of rabbits run an hour, or slightly over.

Pass me the bullets, I'm gonna shoot my dogs, sell my house and buy yours.

DONT SHOOT QUITE YET. LOL

[Alabama John]

SilverZuk

You overlooked the word "practically".

I've seen a lot of close track running dogs run "practically" check free, meaning some short quick checks.

In LP, when a loss occurs per the judge, his clock is started and after 15 seconds passes it is considered a check. 15 seconds is a long time.
How long it takes the dogs to recover varies and how long they are ultimatley allowed to search for the lost track is up to the judge. I have seen many checks last 4 minutes and more before a dead track is called.

If all your checks are a minimum of 15 seconds up to ???, you do not have close track running dogs.

Heck, I today can run as fast as I can and overrun a marked line 10 feet and get back to it and run around a small circle the size of a basketball key looking for the lost line in much less than 15 seconds. A dog should surely be able to beat me at it!

[hillbilly]

O.K. NOW I GET IT RUFUS BUSTER IS REALLY A PROGRESSIVE PACK HOUND AND YOU HAVE BEEN TRYING TO RUN HIM IN LITTLE PACK....

I THINK I HAVE THE ANSWER TO YOUR PROBLEM SEND HIM TO GEORGIA AND I WILL GUN HUNT HIM FOR ABOUT 8/10 WEEKS (JUST TO GET HIM USE TO ME) AND THEN I'LL TAKE HIM TO A FEW PP TRIALS...AFTER ALL WHAT ARE FRIENDS FOR...

P.S. SEND A FEW BAGS OF PRO PLAN I WOULD HATE TO CHANGE HIS FEED.....(MIGHT SPEED HIM UP IF I FEED HIM MY STUFF)

HILLBILLY

[gap]

HILLBILLY You do realize you have to take the dogs out of the kennel and go hunting to do that dont you. The way you run dogs you will turn buster into a patch hound LOL

[jumpmaster]

I am with you silverzuk, I have never seen an hour long run with no checks. I used to read things like this when I first got back into dogs, and think, man my dogs must really suck, but I have done a lot of running with other dogs, probably hundreds, and gone to some trials, still have never seen that done. I think you would have to have a walkie talkie to do that. I dont think fifteen seconds is very long at all.

[houndsound]

LP may promote a dog that is a little "rough" in the check.... but if PP has bunch's of dog's that run a rabbit for an hour and a 15 second check is a rare and long check.... then they're promoting babblers.

dk

[houndsound]

I won’t mention any name, but I just opened an e-mail that asked me the following question regarding the above post I just made.” If you believe that this format will allow any type of hound to be successful, then how will the format ever help better the breed? Good question but….

Someone needs to explain to me what this means.. What is bettering the breed? What breed? What color? What speed? What style? What size? What type of game? What format? What is the “Breed Standard”?

I looked it up in the dictionary and here’s what it says:

Breed: to produce offspring by sexual union

Standard: something set up and established by authority as a rule for the measure of quantity, weight, extent, value, or quality


I hear this statement often and can’t figure out what the breed “standard” is. Who’s standard? And Who decides? Who is the authority?

Well, here goes my opinion. There are probably hundreds of different versions of the beagle breed. There are speeds that range on our speed scale from 1-10. There are blue ones, red ones, tri colored ones, lemon ones, open marked ones, brindle ones, gray ones..etc. There are all different sizes and styles. They are raised to run all types of game. They run fox, deer, rabbits, pheasants, squirrel and even sniff drugs.
So what is the breed “standard”? I’d say that would be in the eye of the breeder himself. Each individual will decide what the measure of quality and value is based on the hound he likes. If a person decided he wants pups. He can take any flavor or combination of hound and make a cross. If he gets what he likes then he just bettered “HIS” breed. I don’t believe there is one “standard”, one format, or one individual that has the authority on “bettering the breed”. Just my 2 cent.

Awsome Post!

[Hatfield]

I am a bit anal when it comes to details. I have a wrist watch and with that wrist watch I time my dogs on #1. length of race, #2.length of check, and #3. length of break down free drive time. I can't speak for your dogs ,but I can say the best of mine while being soloed averages.
#1. 20 minutes per rabbit. Some go straight to the hole some run for 45min.+
#2.any where from a bobble up to 5 min. I hate lost rabbits!
#3.Now the good one. 6 to 8 min. of drive time is what I figure to be an eternity to run check free.
If you have an hour of check free runnin on fast hounds I need some of what you have and will pay HEAVY for it! I love hard driving check free hounds and know where a little rat hole is to back up my smart mouth. So consider yourself called out, I want to come run with your hounds!

Also the last person that made that claim was from Al. I went to see his infamous pack, and was told as leaving, " Come back again next year maybe then I will have someting to run with you guys!" And to tell the truth I aint got much past fair. I don't want you to get mad . Just want you to pm me.

[Alabama John]

Hatfield

No dog or 5 dog pack I've ever seen could do that every day or most days.

Ned did do that that day and he was not slow, but low side of fast.

You are saying your dogs can do it also when you say your soled dog sometimes runs for 45 minutes plus. Could that be stretched to one every now and then that is one hour? Going to ground is not a problem where this happened and there are big rabbits that run an hour easily.

You also say your checks are from a babble to 5 minutes. How many of each is the average? Is it possible to string an hour run that has only less than 14.99 second babbles? Doesn't matter how many of them, could be 50 or 100 as long as they are less than 14.99 seconds.

You also say 6-8 minutes of drive time is a long time between checks.
Based on that, your own dog being soloed could run 6-8 minutes, have a lose (not over a 15 second one, but up to 14.99 seconds) and that would not be counted as a check.

As I see it, your own dog COULD accomplish this by itself running solo.

Now, add 4 other dogs helping find loses in less than 14.99 seconds and you have a check free hour run in LP. Not a dog in the cast got any check points and according to the score card, there was not a check made so the run was check free.

THAT WAS MY ORIGINAL POINT AND WHAT I DO NOT LIKE ABOUT LP!!!!

I also doubt a rabbit was jumped in the first seconds, but it is still considered check free for the hour.

That is what happened at Baileyton, Alabama in an LP cast and I've seen it since with and without my dogs in the cast.

[SilverZuk]

Alabama John,
I am quite familiar with LP rules and also judge.

[Alabama John]

SilverZuk

Do you as a LP judge, wait a full 15 seconds before you consider a loss a check?

Might want to not shoot that Gip you mentioned. Sounds like a good one.

Thanks for your hard work judging.

[slim shady]

Most do not. If its a 10-11 second check I will score it.

[JIMMIE ABSHIRE]

Most do not. If its a 10-11 second check I will score it.

Wish you would judge me.

[SilverZuk]

Yes, the rules require 15 seconds.
I feel that is just a good of time as any.
If you score less than than, a super fast dog could bobble the track and score points on a check that it created because it can't run the line.

15 seconds usually gets all the hounds in the check area and time to work giving the check opportunity to the other dogs and not rewarding the dog that may have created it.

I assume slim shady is not an ARHA LP judge.

Here is the ARHA LP definition of a check.

1. Definition: A check occurs when it is evident that the hounds in
pursuit of the rabbit have lost it for 15 seconds, or more. The
hounds do not have to shut up barking for 15 seconds in the check
area for it to be considered a check, only lose it to where they
cannot make forward progress with the rabbit for 15 seconds. A
hound must claim the check by giving mouth and making forward
progress.

You can read the rules here:
http://www.arha.com/forms/PDF/lp_print_rules.pdf

[Pine Mt Beagles]

hey Jimmy--
I LIKE THEM 10-TO 12 -SECOND CHECKS TO .I'VE ONLY BEEN DOING THIS 33 YEARS NOW ABOUT 14 YEARS AGO WE HAD SOME RUNNING THAT LAST ABOUT LIKE THE RACES .INDIANA LONG HARD DRIVING RACES -30 TO 40 -MIN- WITH A FEW SHORT CHECKS.. I COULD NOT IMAGINE RACES THAT LAST LONGER, WITH THAT MUCH PRESSURE AND SPEED.JUST MY OPINION BUT I HAVE FOUND THE SLOWER THE RACE THE LONGER IT LAST--GOOD DEBATE .LET'S HEAR MORE.

PINE MT BEAGLES