Is Progresive pack merging into Little pack

[J.C. Blair]

The way I look at it is this, Little Pack has always been lumped as a whole as wild and crazy, will that idea go away?? Probably not. I have been involved in ARHA Little Pack since 1991. Started judging in 1994, when I was old enough to start judging. Since then I have judged a ton of dogs, and I feel that a lot of people are getting their minds right and running a lot harder hitting, track running dog. Mr. Cut and Swing is still out there, but you don't see it near as much as say 10 years ago. For example I have a male here at my kennel named Boggey. He has really fast foot speed, BUT he has the brains to gear to conditions and he takes a lot of checks out of the races, because he runs really clean. I know what you are thinking FAST & CLEAN is not possible, I invite anyone down for a run with us and you'll leave with a different point of view. Has running too clean hurt him in trials?? Yes it has, but not to extent that it has hurt his ability to win trials. But when it gets time to bring the guns out, who's the first dog that comes out of the pen? Thats right, Boggey.

Now is Little Pack becoming Progressive Pack style? I doubt it. But it seems Little Pack has been on the rise of running a lot better hound in my opinion. Watch out Mr. Swing and Cutter, cause Mr. Track runner is getting ready to run the track over top of you lol. Little Pack's existence is going to be on the shoulders of us younger guys and the direction we take it is up to us. For me it is the guys that helped guide me in the right direction along the way, and they know who they are. They can draw the map, but its up to us to follow the directions to take it to the next level.

[Blu Tick Beagler]

The great thing about Little Pack is that we welcome all types of hounds, and you can be successful with just about any of hound. From medium speed to blazing fast, or from wild swinger to tight line control. It doesn’t matter. On any given day, any of these hounds can win. That is why Little Pack continues to grow every year. Any guy, that owns a beagle with or with out fault can come out and have a good time. Have the hounds changed? Maybe we just have more hounds from other formats coming over to find a new home . The numbers say so… The second largest Little Pack event (Little World) is over 2 times larger than World or Nation Championships of any other formats. Our World hunt is 3.5 times larger.

Will we change our rules to meet the needs of other style hounds? I say no way.. Why would you.? Consider this as a type of game, and the rules are set. If you don’t like how this particular game is played, then go find another sport. If the players change should you change the rules to make the game change? No way, then it would not be Little Pack rules. It would be some bastardized version of another format. I keep this in perspective as I do watching my kids pay a softball or baseball game. The rules are set, I have kids, they like to play, I like to cheer, so lets have some fun.

[Aaron Bartlett]

Hopefully PP will change also to allow faster close dogs to win so we can trial in both.

If anyone is looking for something between ARHA LP and ARHA PP you should give UKC's new Performance Pack a try! I can promise that you wont get picked up cause your dog is to fast but if its to rough thats a different story. If your dog can run by the rules it doesnt matter what speed it is.

I could add my 2 cents about ARHA LP and PP but im probably better off not getting started.

[Lynn Perkins]

I could add my 2 cents about ARHA LP and PP but im probably better off not getting started.

Go ahead it might make for a good debate

[Blu Tick Beagler]

I won’t mention any name, but I just opened an e-mail that asked me the following question regarding the above post I just made.” If you believe that this format will allow any type of hound to be successful, then how will the format ever help better the breed? Good question but….

Someone needs to explain to me what this means.. What is bettering the breed? What breed? What color? What speed? What style? What size? What type of game? What format? What is the “Breed Standard”?

I looked it up in the dictionary and here’s what it says:

Breed: to produce offspring by sexual union

Standard: something set up and established by authority as a rule for the measure of quantity, weight, extent, value, or quality


I hear this statement often and can’t figure out what the breed “standard” is. Who’s standard? And Who decides? Who is the authority?

Well, here goes my opinion. There are probably hundreds of different versions of the beagle breed. There are speeds that range on our speed scale from 1-10. There are blue ones, red ones, tri colored ones, lemon ones, open marked ones, brindle ones, gray ones..etc. There are all different sizes and styles. They are raised to run all types of game. They run fox, deer, rabbits, pheasants, squirrel and even sniff drugs.
So what is the breed “standard”? I’d say that would be in the eye of the breeder himself. Each individual will decide what the measure of quality and value is based on the hound he likes. If a person decided he wants pups. He can take any flavor or combination of hound and make a cross. If he gets what he likes then he just bettered “HIS” breed. I don’t believe there is one “standard”, one format, or one individual that has the authority on “bettering the breed”. Just my 2 cent.

[Alabama John]

Jimmie and Lynn

For down here ya'll are big time and have won big time trials against some tough competition!!!

I think you both are being modest.

I would like to see that Buzzsaw and Junie dog after a Big rabbit.

[bill (flint river )]

lynn. there is a ton of poor judging or the buddy sytem going on. and as for line breeding, sooner or later the family tree looks like a pole. there is a correct way and a wrong way. there are way to many guys calling them self breeders and have not one clue. or are willing to cull out the misfits.


bill

[Pine Mt Beagles]

HEY, JIMMY AND LYNN
CAN I BRING SOME OF MY LINE BRED CULLS AND RUN,I DON'T CALL MYSELF A BREEDER,JUST A"" BEAGLER""I REALLY DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN MAINTAIN A BREED OF ANY KIND WITHOUT LINE BREEDING,OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO OUT CROSS BUT THAT DON'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO LOSE ANY THING I EXPECT TO BETTER MY DOG BY OUT CROSSING WHEN NEEED,YES YOU HAVE BAD JUDGING ,BUT YOU HAVE GOOD JUDGING TO. I THINK MANY MORE GOOD ONES.AS FOR BREEDING HOUNDS FOR TRIALS.I LIKE A HOUND THAT CAN RUN AS FAST AS HE CAN AND NOT MAKE A CHECK.AND HUNT LIKE HIS" HEAD IS ON FIRE AND HIS BUTT IS TRYING TO PUT IT OUT",IF THEY DO GOOD IN THE TRIALS OK' BUT I BREED FOR THE QUALITY OF THE HOUND FIRST,,, AS FOR THE HOUNDS THEY ARE"" REALLY, REALLY" GETTING BETTER AS TIME GOES ON .SOME LINES MAY FALL BEHIND A LITTLE BUT AS A WHOLE THEY SEEM TO BE IMPROVING,HUNT, LINE CONTROL,BRAINS ,NOSE,""I HAVE SAW A FEW HOUNDS THAT COULD RUN ,,,P.P,LP AND AKC MIDWEST.OF COURSE IT'S A SHORT LIST,,,,,,
KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES
P.S. HEY JIM AND LYNN I'M NOT AS BIG TIME AS YOU GUY'S SO MY OPINIION PROBABLY IS NOT WORTH MUCH,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[MasonsBeagles]

Im not a big trialer but have been off and on to alot of trials in the last ten or so years. It appears the competition has gotten alot stronger than in the mid nineties. There are more people running Little Pack and that may be the biggest reasons. You go watch hounds at these trials and it isnt hard to figure out who is a hobby houndsman (trialer only) and those that meat hunt and use trialing as a way to enjoy there hounds year round.

I still say a rabbit dog will excel in whatever format you decide to compete in. Whether its PP or LP.

[bill (flint river )]

HEY, JIMMY AND LYNN
CAN I BRING SOME OF MY LINE BRED CULLS AND RUN,I DON'T CALL MYSELF A BREEDER,JUST A"" BEAGLER""I REALLY DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN MAINTAIN A BREED OF ANY KIND WITHOUT LINE BREEDING,OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO OUT CROSS BUT THAT DON'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO LOSE ANY THING I EXPECT TO BETTER MY DOG BY OUT CROSSING WHEN NEEED,YES YOU HAVE BAD JUDGING ,BUT YOU HAVE GOOD JUDGING TO. I THINK MANY MORE GOOD ONES.AS FOR BREEDING HOUNDS FOR TRIALS.I LIKE A HOUND THAT CAN RUN AS FAST AS HE CAN AND NOT MAKE A CHECK.AND HUNT LIKE HIS" HEAD IS ON FIRE AND HIS BUTT IS TRYING TO PUT IT OUT",IF THEY DO GOOD IN THE TRIALS OK' BUT I BREED FOR THE QUALITY OF THE HOUND FIRST,,, AS FOR THE HOUNDS THEY ARE"" REALLY, REALLY" GETTING BETTER AS TIME GOES ON .SOME LINES MAY FALL BEHIND A LITTLE BUT AS A WHOLE THEY SEEM TO BE IMPROVING,HUNT, LINE CONTROL,BRAINS ,NOSE,""I HAVE SAW A FEW HOUNDS THAT COULD RUN ,,,P.P,LP AND AKC MIDWEST.OF COURSE IT'S A SHORT LIST,,,,,,
KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES
P.S. HEY JIM AND LYNN I'M NOT AS BIG TIME AS YOU GUY'S SO MY OPINIION PROBABLY IS NOT WORTH MUCH,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

lets agree to diagree.

[CHRIS B.]

ARHA PP does have some fast hounds and some more conservative also as does UKC PP. If you judge by the rules and not by a style of hound you like and know this is not always done. A fast hound with control should be able to place or win in lp, pp or even akc midwest on any given day. Provided the scenting don't get the best of his speed. We have a dog out of PPGRCH and FC Hartwick's Flashing Sur Hanna and she probably could have done well in LP also. What i am trying to say is alot of people are pushing the edge to try and produce that type hound.

[Alabama John]

Rufus, Don't ya'll Kentucky boys go to arguing with each other as who's the BIGGEST TIME!!!!!!! I'm not qualified to be the judge. I might judge better on who's the BIGGEST BSer though.

I just got the Rabbit Hunter Magazine and my son noticed ARHA LP Trials are way down in numbers of dogs showing up so far this trial season.
Talked to a friend that trials LP and wins BIG TIME in my opinion and not from Kentucky and had the Indiana State called to my attention as an example too.

Wonder why?

[jumpmaster]

I love this topic, and wish I could talk to each one of you person to person, I have way to much to say about it, to type it all. I will tell the people that are against line breeding that if you dont use it, you will never produce pups that have any consistancy, but by using your head, and thinking it out, you may wind up with a litter of good ones, instead of one or two.

[Lynn Perkins]

Well, here goes my opinion. There are probably hundreds of different versions of the beagle breed. There are speeds that range on our speed scale from 1-10. There are blue ones, red ones, tri colored ones, lemon ones, open marked ones, brindle ones, gray ones..etc. There are all different sizes and styles. They are raised to run all types of game. They run fox, deer, rabbits, pheasants, squirrel and even sniff drugs.
So what is the breed “standard”? I’d say that would be in the eye of the breeder himself. Each individual will decide what the measure of quality and value is based on the hound he likes. If a person decided he wants pups. He can take any flavor or combination of hound and make a cross. If he gets what he likes then he just bettered “HIS” breed. I don’t believe there is one “standard”, one format, or one individual that has the authority on “bettering the breed”. Just my 2 cent.

I agree completely,why?I have often said how could one person better the breed when so many like a different style of dog.I ain't trying to better the breed for no one but myself,and all i'm doing is tring to better what i keep in my kennel and if something from my kennel makes someone else happy then thats even better.
One person cannot take this task on,we each would have to strive for the same goal,i feel we think we are but it is an individual goal to please ourselves and really isn't that what matters most,that we enjoy and like what we each feed!

[Lynn Perkins]

lynn. there is a ton of poor judging or the buddy sytem going on. and as for line breeding, sooner or later the family tree looks like a pole. there is a correct way and a wrong way. there are way to many guys calling them self breeders and have not one clue. or are willing to cull out the misfits.


bill

Bill,i will agree that there still is bad judging,that more then the buddy system.I'm not saying that doesn't take place but about any sport you will probably see it.
If a person can cheat,at anything then he or she will have to deal with it themselves.I live for myself and not what anyone else does,i stand accountable for my actions not yours or anyones.

If it runs a rabbit the way i like,then why would i care about any limbs?Like Rufus,if you continue to always outcross how can you get a guideline of what way your going with your hounds?I have NO problem with outcrossing do it all the time,but like i said earlier only to a line that has a similar style to what i already have that is linebred.
I will agree with you,there is a correct way and wrong,but who's to say my way or your way is right or wrong.Go back and read what Paul Prevot has to say,i agree with him completely.
I don't claim to be a breeder,but when i do i put alot of thought into it,first similarities in how they,hunt for,and run a rabbit(notice i put and between hunt and run)i consider that 2 different things.If it's linebreeding so be it,if it's outcrossing so be that also.
So to you whats culling?putting them down?giving them to someone as a pet?Maybe getting to use them to hunt only but NO breeding pupose period?
We each have our on idea hound in mind,should be up to each individual on how to get it.Like i said to each his own,goodluck in their decisions whether linebred or outcross it should make the one who's buying the feed happy,and thats all that matters!