line breeding

BradWV · Post by **BradWV** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:07 pm

Let's see if I can explain what I am thinking of doing. I have two males, father and son, both of which are proven dogs. I plan on breeding one of them to my female, which would be a complete outcross. Would I be better to breed her to the younger dog and then breed a pup back to the older dog or vise versa. Assuming of course that the pups turn out to be nice dogs.

jonnyringo · Post by **jonnyringo** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:12 pm

I'd breed her to the best of the two at at their prospective age and then go from there. I'd also consider the dam side of both of them and consider which dam was the better of the two if the two males you have are close in quality. Of course the son will have the dam side of the father but it will be further removed. You must consider both sets of pedigrees carefully if the pop and son are of equal quality.

eddywilliams · Post by **eddywilliams** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:18 pm

which traits of the 2 do you like the best ? ive always thought that the dog would throw more dogs with the traits of his father or gr. sire than himself , 1 might be a good reproducer 1 might not if i had a male out of ali-baba and then a male out of that male which do you think would be the best to breed to 1st? id say the male out of ali-baba which would be closer genes then if i want to intensify it so to say i would breed those to something with this blood top and bottom or double it up if possible to get more of that dogs genes im trying to duplicate or trying to get his style maybe this will help some , i like the gr.sire gr. daughter crosses or similar , my feelings on it , eddy

BradWV · Post by **BradWV** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:41 pm

First off, thanks for the feedback! As far as which dog is better, they are of equal quality. The older dog is a proven reproducer (in my book) and I have yet to breed the younger one. I could breed the older one first, but then I would be breeding half brother to half sister if it all works out. I have heard some great stories of this type of cross, but have also heard of several disasters. Just kind of looking into the future!

MasonsBeagles · Post by **MasonsBeagles** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:23 pm

Id breed to the sire first.

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:15 pm

Has your bitch ever been bred before? Do you know what she may contribute to the breeding? What I'm saying is, if you breed two first time young hounds, you don't know who contributed what or where the good or bad came from, when your evaluating your pups... now if you know the linage of the hounds and what their strengths and weakness are, you might take a shot but the total outcross may bring to surface the unknown or recessive from either.
At least the older hound has proved to produce one that you like...

... Was this from an outcross also? if so, another outcross to the younger male hound may lead you farther way as he is the result of an outcross himself.
The more outcrosses you make, the more you stir things up...
Linebreeding is for slow improvments and gaining consistency in results...

BradWV · Post by **BradWV** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:51 pm

Kinda makes you go hmmmmmmmmm.

Beagle Huntsman · Post by **Beagle Huntsman** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:14 pm

Why not try to find a stud who is more related to your female? That way, you may strengthen the producing abilities of her puppies.

Also, I generally get better puppies from younger parents.....For what that's worth.

Bub M · Post by **Bub M** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:10 am

Why don't you try breeding her to JIM ???????

sanfordssj · Post by **sanfordssj** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:19 am

Brad check out brankos pedigrees and any other bloodlines you can find! Ali-baba is a direct brreding of a half brother to half sister on the females side! Do your own research and go from there! Good luck. Notice that the sucess is in the female in most of these.

look at this one!
http://www.espomagazine.com/pedigrees/1295.htm

Reggie is out of a female top and bottom!
http://www.espomagazine.com/pedigrees/787.htm

Look at branko's top/bottoms with Anna's Ann & Conman
http://www.espomagazine.com/pedigrees/1037.htm

This should get you started on your own research!!!!

Steve

BradWV · Post by **BradWV** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:09 am

Bub,

I don't want any red dogs!

Bub M · Post by **Bub M** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:23 am

Jim is not a red dog.

Wilkerson Boys · Post by **Wilkerson Boys** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:50 am

Brad,
One question I would need to know is are you breeding for what your female is or what your two males are? If you are starting a line based on wanting to keep what your two males are a complete outcross may take you on quite an adventure, meaning adding some things in future generations that just won't seem to go away? (just a thought) If your female was of some kin (top & bottom if could be) to your males there would be more, (genes in the hat so to speak to keep yours males gene pools going) Some say male & female are 50% X 50%. Some say more and some say less. I believe they are whatever God meant them to be. I know breeders that use outcrosses RARELY! Not saying outcrosses are bad, just saying you will make the picture much harder to see and that some people will never see even though the picture will clearly show it over and over again as it never fades. Figure that one out. lol. Just some thought Brad as I am not an expert by far but have heard and learned a few things through the folks that circle me.

Wayne

bullboy · Post by **bullboy** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:51 am

i agree with with sr patch after watching what my uncle has done the last 30 years he has not bred out no they are not beagles they are bird dogs but all the same.the biggest thing is knowing what each of those dogs ran or hunted like second keeping all the pups and culling hard for that next cross. farther daughter seems to work but you have to relize he has been breeding this line for 32 years and keeps a log of all dogs out of every cross so there is alot of documantation to go back on. we have started here with buying running dogs out of certain bloodline that run similar to each other and to the way we like and have started the same as he has.he started with 3 lines of dogs and has blended them into 1 but it takes time alot of time nearly half his life has been devoted to this line of dogs and i also believe some of us don't have the patience to do that my self as well.also looking back many people tend to have the hot now sendrome and this takes years of devotion thanks bull

sanfordssj · Post by **sanfordssj** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:26 am

Thats a good post Bull!

Your story and mine both have one thing in common. Both my aunt and your uncle have been breeding for over thirty years!!! It does take time and several litters to see what is working and not working.