Registered packs run to a lose? How?

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:36 pm

Brian, it's what they call Internet talk. It's obvious to anyone who's ever run hare that nobody's medium speed dogs (or super-fast, for that matter) are going to catch 5 hare in a day. Someone might as well tell us that the sky is yellow. Like you, it bothers me when there's such gross misrepresentation. It's not so much that someone wants to talk hyperbole, it's that they insist on me believing it -- that's the insulting part.

You won't find anyone to take you up on your offer, because nobody has the dog. It's as simple as that. It's the same as a lot of the magazine articles where you hear about guy's dogs running well at 20 and 30 degrees below zero, routinely -- that's a crock of cucka too. There's a lot of fairytale stuff going around, and you're right; it gives a lot of folks unrealistic expectations. There are some darned good dogs around, but very few of them live up to the grand reviews that a lot of them are given in public.

But, that might be what makes this all so much fun. If it were all straight-talk then maybe it wouldn't be so darned entertaining.

Keep your powder dry.

laal · Post by **laal** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:54 pm

patchman, I bet if you brought your pack to big ridge and ran there for a year or 2 you would run out of fingers quick trying to count the rabbits your dog cought. Not many of us are saying our dogs can catch hare, but I bet some of our dogs could bring a hare to the gun.

When you talk about hare catching dogs you need to call names. (my opinion)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 9:04 pm

laal,

You must be a hare hunter and i agree in some unhunted areas where hare are not pressured a hound or pack of hound may catch a hare but it won't happen often.

One day i watched a very good and i mean best of the best pack of grade beagles pound a hare for over six hours this pack would be considered very fast by any little pack beagler. the conditions were right and there was five of us hunting and we couldn't be in the right place at the right time to get a shot. There were breakdowns most short and we worked our selves to death trying to kill this hare but it didn't happen.

I am talking from experience not from a magazine article. Two things happened .

1) those super fast good hounds didn't catch the hare and the hare didn't die from exertion and they pounded the guts out of him.

2) the race ended with a loss after 6 hours. Why who knows but it happens and would have happened to alot of lesser hounds well before that.

Any hare hunters reading this will know what i am talking about and this is the way hunting goes with good dogs wether it be cottontail or hares or swampers.

How many medium speed dogs do people actually think will run a hare or cottontail into complete excertion. It does happen mostly in warm weather when the chase has been long and the rabbit stops and and is stressed and the lactic buildup will make it sit just a little too tight and the dogs catch it. As you can see i like to tell stories also but i try to keep it on an even playinfg field. Let's tell it like it is so the ones who are not quite as experienced as us will have a real basis for buying and judging beagles and feel every time they buy a hound from a reconized breeder they can know what to expect instead of thinking they won't even have to carry a gun to put some rabbits in the game bag.

packamn · Post by **packamn** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 9:06 pm

Above post was me.

laal where is this place you are talking about i love to run in different areas.

Ted Peercy · Post by **Ted Peercy** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 9:08 pm

Now I'm not as intelligent as Alabama John. I take my pack out lots of days on poor scent days and stay our there-and loose rabbits. In fact my dogs loose rabbits some on good scent days. I don't want it inferred to anyone that they don't. But when they can smell one, they are trying to pull the hair out of it's tail. I haven't counted this spring, but they have probably caught 5 or 6, not all grown. In fact, I can't even tell you with certainty that John's pack doesn't loose some rabbits. Most dogs, I think, that catch a rabbit get it when it stops and sits down, and gets caught in the middle of the pack. But not Queenie(John's Dog). I've seen her do it too many times. Now I think she is capable of loosing one, but she is the most capable of catching one that I have ever seen. Now if you don't believe that, I think that's fine. But why don't you handle it like one of us Rebels would. If you don't believe it just smile, shake your head and let it pass. Don't open your fat mouth and call somebody a liar. Ted Peercy Willow Springs Kennel

patchman · Post by **patchman** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 10:10 pm

Mr. Peercy

This is a discussion board incase you didn't notice!

I didn't come out and call you a liar or point to you personally or anyone else on this board. If I had the mentality of that type of person i would have said it in the first post. Don't know what the rebel way is I'll leave that up to you. I'm sure that Alabama John has an outstanding female i don't doubt that a bit.

Obviously I am wrong and know nothing about beagles, rabbits,hares or swampers so can you hook me up with a dog that will not have a loose and catch all those rabbits and hares. I am not being a smart ??? i would like to have one and am willing to pay the price.

If i can't buy it atleast let me watch it run so i will know what to look for from now on!

Sorry folks i thought we were discussing this in open forum of debate but i guess i am stepping on too many toes so how about a little help from the rabbit hunters who actually know where i am coming from on this topic.

laal · Post by **laal** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 10:13 pm

Guest I don't think you understand what I'm saying? I can put a pack on the ground where I run most of the time, big ridge Alabama about 8 miles south of Jasper that will catch or put to ground most of the rabbits they jump. The only reason I say most is sometimes they will jump a young rabbit or doe that they can not run. They will put nearly every big rabbit they jump in the bround or catch it. We are good at catching the dogs before they catch the rabbit, there are lots of roads and when a rabbit starts setting (squating) we start catching our dogs. Most catches are after a race of an hour or more. You are right in hot weather a rabbit can't stay up as long as in cold weather.

Big Ridge Is in north Alabama, and most beaglers are welcome. e-mail me and set up a date. 700 acres of good running rabbits. Hills and hollers, swamps, and blackberry patches.

Ya'll come

patchman · Post by **patchman** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 10:48 pm

laal,

Do you allow country boys with flea bitten ole patch hounds to run with you!

I love swampers do you have them!

Would like to arrange a late season hunt with some swampers and come to virginia and i will put you on some hares!

Ted Peercy · Post by **Ted Peercy** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:03 pm

Patchman,
If you are packman on the above post, I enjoyed reading your post, since I know nothing about hare and very little about swampers. I don't doubt your wisdom on the subject. I never questioned what you knew, in fact my response wasn't even to you. So, if I stepped on your toes, I'm sorry.

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:11 pm

Ted, Chris was wrong and out of line. If he has never seen a pack catch a rabbit, or, his dogs can't catch a rabbit, that does not mean it can't be done. I never realized until now, that most other packs all over the country never catch a rabbit.

You would think we were challenging their manhood.

We either have faster footed dogs then they do, or maybe we have slower rabbits down here!

Ever time I have said no loses, I have qualified it with when our pack is RUNNING a rabbit, meaning PHYSICALLY RUNNING (and all that goes with being able to do so, such as scenting, terrain etc.) They would have a loss on a day they can't smell for some reason, but then that would also not be a day they could PHYSICALLY RUN either would it? So, I do not count it.

"Running my dogs" is a term only to most beaglers as their dogs never run, but amble, trot, or walk while calling it RUNNING. That's fine and there's nothing wrong with that. They are never biting at the rabbits tail as Ted so ably put it.

laal, watch Patchman as the hills and hollars you are talking about are level ground to someone that runs in the West Virginia mountains. His mountain dogs might catch some themselves and with your dogs down here. Make him agree to post it on this site when they do.

bob huffman · Post by **bob huffman** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:16 am

Now the hollering is really gonna start. Would any one believe me if I told you there is a man that could run down a rabbit and catch it or club it. It has been documented by reliable sources and is public information. I am talking about regular wild rabbits just like we run everyday. I figure if a man can do it, so can a dog but maybe not. I do know in Alabama when it is 90 degrees and no wind and the humidity is about 99%, a rabbit can be run to death or caught because he gets a little warm in his rabbit coat. If he is not used to running for 2 hours he is unlike the dogs for they are in shape because they have been run for a few weeks. Think about the rabbit. How often does he train to get in shape. He hops around a few hours a day looking for food and maybe playing a little with his buddies, but he is not in the shape the dogs are and may not last the whole trip if he is getting pressured hard. I also know of a pack that would spread out like a blanket and when the rabbit goes left, the left dog gets the track and when he goes right, the right dog gets it and the checks are few. They cover a wider area and the rabbit is at a disadvantage. I know of 2 littermates owned by Bryan Waddle of La Plata Mo. that caught a lot of rabbits. He is an honest boy and will tell you himself and will also tell you that people don't believe him when he tells them.

AlabamaSwamper · Post by **AlabamaSwamper** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:19 am

Heck, my dogs have caught a couple of rabbits and they are medium speed. They didn't physically run them down on track but that dumb bunny stopped long enough for them to catch him. This has happened twice, both during rabbit season and both in Febuary.

I have no doubt that Alabama John's dogs can catch a rabbit. I have either seen his run in trials or see some dogs that he has sold run and they are faaaaasssssssttttttttttt. No two ways about it. They run to catch. Mine don't do that but we prefer two different styles of dogs.

laal, I have never heard of Big Ridge, is it a wma or private land. I'm about an hour and a half from Jasper or maybe 2 hours.

patchman · Post by **patchman** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 10:17 am

Guys patch and pack are the same i am on 2 puters and switch often. with all the different passwords and log ins it's hard to keep up.

We catch a few cottontails our selves but my impressions of the posts was that everyone had some kind of superdogs and they really don't exist. Don't think i am bashing you it just seemed as we were getting alot of barstool and campfire stories so i will let it rest.

Laal my dogs have never got to run on flat ground, as a matter of fact all my litters are born with legs shorter on one side than on they other. Maybe they would catch a few down there. You know these ole patches are pretty fast and wild.

Thanks for being good sports. I look forwrd to meeting some of you and your hounds.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:19 pm

Alabama John wrote:Ted, Chris was wrong and out of line. If he has never seen a pack catch a rabbit, or, his dogs can't catch a rabbit, that does not mean it can't be done.

John, I fear you've misread something. I've been out of line before, but I assure you this wasn't one of those times. I referred specifically to hare. I couldn't comment on the other types of rabbits because I have little or no experience with those. I'd no sooner tell you about cottontails and swampers than I'd expect you to tell me about hare. More specifically; Rebel's repeated claim of his 5 medium speed dogs catching 5 in one day. I assure you that it's not true. If, after you've read this explanation, you feel that I'm still wrong and out of line, as you've put it, then I guess I can live with that.

Let me repeat myself... nobody's Beagles (unless they run mute, or near mute, on track) are going to catch 5 hare in a day during hunting conditions -- regardless of the circumstances. Anyone having proof to the contrary and a penchant for money, please contact me here --> http://milleroutdoors.com/form.html

This morning I was at the International Hare Futurity at the Hardwick Beagle Club watching a class (41 dogs all run at one time) of 15" females (large pack on hare), with Bev Saunders. We watched them run pretty good for about 3 hours. Not one hare was caught. In fact, even after hours of pretty steady pressure from these dozens of hounds, the rabbit was well ahead of the dogs and in no danger of losing its life.

I'll have a $10,000 cashier's check waiting to purchase one of these dogs that can catch 5 healthy hare in a day. I'll even extend the period to a full week; giving them ample opportunity to catch the 5 hare. If such dogs exist, then the owner(s) please contact me. I'll make you rich. There were approximately 10 out-of-state groups who brought their dogs up here last year alone, from all over the country -- one (1) healthy hare was caught (by one of my 11 month old, at the time, females). In fact, none of them ran more than one full day without a loss, including mine, that I can remember. Quite a few of them were field champions, and most of them were pretty efficient, accomplished gundogs.

I don't mind being educated on cottontails and swampers, but I do take exception to being called wrong and out of line in regards to my experience on snowshoe hare.

bob huffman · Post by **bob huffman** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:48 pm

I can tell you that the man that could catch and or club rabbits was the famous anthropologist LUOIS LEAKEY. He wondered if our ancestors could catch game and finally figured out that if you would get within 20 to 30 yards of a rabbit and then run straight at it, some would freeze for just a few seconds. When he got within just about 10 feet, he would quickly turn right or left as the rabbit would most times run that way as it tried to escape. He wasn't always correct on which direction turn, but often enough that he proved that a man could kill a rabbit with a club if he was hunting them. This was documented and is in college text books on animal behavior.