Three Jays Jack Ace

awful bawlin · Post by **awful bawlin** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:38 am

Norwester
Shaker impressed me running fox. Seemed to me that he was the toughest clean smooth dog as the running progressed. Jack and John were partners for a while and John did keep the dogs he got from Jack from being rough. Ace and Mac are the examples. I am of the same belief as Darryl and simply put I guess Jack put up with stuff some cannot. All the jays dogs cannot be generalized but norwester your synopsis fits my observations. Shaker produced many exceptional bitches and fewer males and the ones I have wont be parted with. I think that having Shaker in the pedigree is a bonus . We digress but guess thats something we are allowed L&S monk

show dog · Post by **show dog** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:56 am

I trained my show beagle in the field with Ace. He ran well and was a great dog in the kennel. He ran fast but stayed on the line. My hound always pulled them off when we were training. That's why I got kicked out, I had the bad hound. He ran pretty clean too. It seemed to be Jack's bitches that got involved in the deer chases when we were outside of the enclosure not the males. I really liked Ace, he was a great dog all round. Carolyn

NorWester · Post by **NorWester** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:42 am

Good info Monk, although just as a sideline kind of thought, I'm not sure that just because a hound can run a fox cleanly is any indication that the dog can run a hare or cottontail cleanly. The rabbits to my mind require more nose and attention from a hound to run the line properly.

whiteriver · Post by **whiteriver** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:57 pm

my shaker bitch out of dirty pond liaka runs very clean , my other shaker bitch out of wabasso mary is a little rougher but exceptional none the less... i think dogs out of shaker vary on roughness according to the bitch side , just my opinion .

Mitch Gould

JIMMIE ABSHIRE · Post by **JIMMIE ABSHIRE** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:40 am

I have never seen a fast dog that was not at the very best somewhat ruff
of course i run cottontail not hare. The shaker dogs around her are not mixing well with our blood.Nothing at all against shaker great line of hounds , but way to much top end and not enuff line control to suit me .

awful bawlin · Post by **awful bawlin** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:19 am

Norwester
Ya gets me goat. The first times I saw the shaker dog was on fox. I saw him many times on hare. He was the same on both correct clean tough and bottomless. The hare were basically at the bottom and the dog was conditioned on fox or behind the boat. nuff this post was bout Ace not his daddy
Jimmie I think you will find the Shaker, Ninja crosses the way you describe but the Haunted Hill crosses were cleaner
To Quote Coady the only thing with line control is the rabbit tee heee L&S monk PS I am done

NorWester · Post by **NorWester** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:41 am

I thought we were allowed to digress Monk?

awful bawlin · Post by **awful bawlin** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:24 pm

touche
Kieth
L&S monk

ncbeagler · Post by **ncbeagler** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:05 pm

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Many times after somebody gets their drawers smoked by a faster more profcient hound they don't cry wolf they cry ruff, ruff. I own IFC NYHA High Hound Three Jays Jacks Smokey.She ran in 32 trials winning or placing second in 21 of them for 66% first/second.If she would had her tail amputated sooner there's literally no telling what she would have won.She kept getiing seconds in fact 12 of them.After the source of the blood loss was taken care of the wins starting coming.Like Shaker she had great bottom the longer the trial the better.She took what you gave her.She could drive the front or hang on your heels and turn and check you from the rear.At nearily 7 yrs old she can still run a ct to a kill in bushy cover where they twist turn and double.A dumb dog could not do what she does.In fact a southern beagler friend of mine wanted to see her.The gentleman runs SPO in the south that really is picky and conservative.He says normally I don't like a pushier dog like her,but when she is running long periods of time check free and his FC's were put down after I got her up and his dogs had checks.He says put her back down same old she pounds again never missing a beat.This gentleman says she is absolutely awesome.Considering most of her running has been on hare that speaks volumes for her breeding.Dave Miller NMHA finished a shaker bitch won on bottom end and check work.Heresays are just that.Don't believe everything you hear cause some ones biscuit eater can't hang they want to tear some one else down to feel like the Man.l might add Smokey won/placed under conservative judges,aggressive judges, even spo judges.There are flaws in every line of dog not every pup will make the grade.Steve Church

JIMMIE ABSHIRE · Post by **JIMMIE ABSHIRE** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:17 am

Steve,
I have personally never met you But have heard nothing but good about you after i posted my comment i would like to explain . There was a limited amount of breedings with shaker stuff and pine mtn stuff, the results i thought were way to fast and way to ruff on the line . I have also seen some shaker stuff i thought was the bomb . I am one of the few that will speak up on my thoughts. Shaker =Chester = did not hit .
Steve by any way I hope i have not offended you or your dogs . Obviously shaker stuff has capt ever title north south east and west . It seems as though hard hitting lines got there work cut out down south .I would love to come north and run hare a few days and see what mine do . Cottontails are little fellas that dictate our line , this time of the year running is heads up as it can get for us . Oh well good luck steve hope some day we get to hook up , maybe the monk will fly us up his way for some good races. Monk you the man

awful bawlin · Post by **awful bawlin** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:27 am

Jimmie
I knows ya knows your hounds . I had the pleasure of getting beat and beating smokey. Wonderful runs with few losses now I am sure others saw it differently but thats what its all about. Steve has been up here he can direct you and the good ones are always welcome. I have been fortunate with the crosses so far but I now find myself limited in what works . Good ones to good ones were the original steps but sometimes they just dont make it . Scratch your head, know you are two years behind , whine and reload . It s way more fun close to the top but its impossible to stay there with all the good competition out there now. I personally was tremendously impressed with jays Princess who IFC'd after the new owners got the blueprint . Get up here if ya find the time .

JIMMIE ABSHIRE · Post by **JIMMIE ABSHIRE** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:19 am

awful bawlin wrote:Jimmie
I knows ya knows your hounds . I had the pleasure of getting beat and beating smokey. Wonderful runs with few losses now I am sure others saw it differently but thats what its all about. Steve has been up here he can direct you and the good ones are always welcome. I have been fortunate with the crosses so far but I now find myself limited in what works . Good ones to good ones were the original steps but sometimes they just dont make it . Scratch your head, know you are two years behind , whine and reload . It s way more fun close to the top but its impossible to stay there with all the good competition out there now. I personally was tremendously impressed with jays Princess who IFC'd after the new owners got the blueprint . Get up here if ya find the time .

Monk aint that the truth , i stays one 1 step behind in my breedings . Someday some way i will get to the north country . My dream is to get in large pack nats and be there for the end ,been to ny once - had great sucess for dum ol country boy . I am seeing those hounds of yours show up down in ky , anxoius to see up get up in age . Something tells me ol lynn may have made some nice crosses like everything else time will tell.
Should you ever get out of the mountains look us up your welcome.

ncbeagler · Post by **ncbeagler** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:47 am

Jim no problem.I know your correct certain crosses don't click.I was more concerned more over an erroneous sterotyping of hounds cause they see 1 or 2 that gets the nerves and they think their all this way.Ace is not yhe only one that has had a problem with Harvey.That's why the LPH game is a major test in handling pressure in addition to all the other qualities we want in a hound.Some dogs may be very talented after a few hours or later in the trial season they no longer can cope they have a mental breakdown and your hero is now a zero.I will not mention the hounds name but a number of years back a Better Beagling High Hound spent almost 2 hours running and jerking the pack around on ghost.It was hidden amidst the 50 or so dogs down to the judges.After myself and some marshalls spotted it the judges were able to key on him and catch him.This hound 12 or so wins.WAS HE DOING THIS EVERY TRIAL PROBABILY NOT.JUST SAYING THAT DOGS CAN HAVE A LIMIT JUST LIKE MAN.YOU SEEN IN YOUR FAMILY OR ANOTHER FAMILY WHERE SOMEONE LOSES IT. IS THE WHOLE FAMILY KUKOO?NO!DO BELIEVE IT CAN BE PASSED ON THOUGH from that individual.

ncbeagler · Post by **ncbeagler** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:57 am

[quote="show dog"]I trained my show beagle in the field with Ace. He ran well and was a great dog in the kennel. He ran fast but stayed on the line. My hound always pulled them off when we were training. That's why I got kicked out, I had the bad hound. He ran pretty clean too. It seemed to be Jack's bitches that got involved in the deer chases when we were outside of the enclosure not the males. I really liked Ace, he was a great dog all round. Carolyn[/quote]YOU KNOW LOTS OF PEOPLE WANT THE DOGS TO RUN DEER TO GET THEM IN SHAPE.I have seen puppies from 3 liiters from shaker nearily all were broken from deer running without much effort several never cared for forky toes period.Show them wrong when they are young can stop the OG stuff.

JIMMIE ABSHIRE · Post by **JIMMIE ABSHIRE** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:37 pm

Hey steve maybe thats were i am going wrong, i try and break em off deer.

Deer is abundant down here also you had better get on em early . As far as ghost tracking theres one out there now getting ready to champ out what a waste . Come to think about it i guess i have been about this all wrong for last 15 years . My thoughts are this i hunt first and trial second the last thing i need is amouthy slash deer runner, when i am holding a 12 guage auto

Need i say more . Ghost trailers
will not make it at my house . period