I have broken several dogs this summer with the aid of a shock collar, every time I was positive it was a deer and it was a set up job. I have also run down my share of dogs and gone that route. I can tell you one thing the He_ _ with running down dogs. The shock collar works you just have to use it the right way. the key is not avoiding deer. With my young dogs everytime I see a deer I walk them toward the line. When gun season comes I want to know for sure that they will not run deer.(as sure as possible anyway) I run collars on all of them and very rarely ever shock them. They only get the extreme juice if it is off game. It has only taken me once or twice on most of the dogs to break them. I have a one year old male that I broke 3 weeks ago. I saw the deer when they got up and saw him and two others hit the line. I let them run it a little ways and commenced to working on their behinds. I no longer run a collar on this male as he has turned down deer on 4 occassions since then. (with no collar on) Even turned down a site race last sunday evening. The collar in the right hands works.
Big Dog
Breaking from running deer
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
shock collars
Black and Tans, Blue Ticks, and a few others bringing smoke
Phillip Smith: How can you tell by a hounds voice that he is on deer? No breaking method works for all hounds. Some will run deer after being shocked and some will run deer after being shaken. I'm wondering why one can tell a collar wise hound?
Snowshoehareguide: That's why we advocate the shakeing method and not the whipping method.
Wingpatch: stick around a while and you'll see the hound that needs more then one shock and then others that can't be broke by a shock collar. That's why even after being shocked the hounds still have to wear the collars.
Hounds read us much better then we read them. In fact all they have to do all day is read us. When you intentionally walk a hound towrds a deer or deer line with the expectation that they will run the deer so you can train them not to it is possible and likely that the hounds will read your body language and see that you expect them to run the deer.
Snowshoehareguide: That's why we advocate the shakeing method and not the whipping method.
Wingpatch: stick around a while and you'll see the hound that needs more then one shock and then others that can't be broke by a shock collar. That's why even after being shocked the hounds still have to wear the collars.
Hounds read us much better then we read them. In fact all they have to do all day is read us. When you intentionally walk a hound towrds a deer or deer line with the expectation that they will run the deer so you can train them not to it is possible and likely that the hounds will read your body language and see that you expect them to run the deer.
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Hare Hunter
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2002 8:10 am
- Location: Newberry Michigan
Joe I don't use a dummy collar, I run young hounds with shock collars until they prove to me they are not interested in deer, we have a large variety of off game here that like to run, lots of temptation for young hounds. I used to run them down and give them an old fashion whipping, cured lots of them that way, I was sure what they were running then and I'm sure now before I lay the juice to them. It's very effective and if the hound is not smart enough to know I will not allow off game running after a couple of times then it can go down the road because I believe it costs the same to feed and train a smart hound as it does a dumb a--. I will not chase them, I hunt hare not dogs! I respect your methods and beliefs but I think ecollars are worth there weight in gold and I will use them as long as I own dogs. The older hounds don't wear them and if they screw up handling ,a good neck scruffing is all they need to remind them I aint happy. Good running. Hare
Earl Holbrook
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MasonsBeagles
I with you.
The key is being sure. If you are unsure then you shouldnt shock. But I am with Big Dog on this to HE__ with running down a dog. One thing for sure when you have a shock collar it is not the end of the day when one hits off game. But if I have to run one down then if I am lucky enough to catch it and whip it or shake it or what ever and go back to running and it hits another then that dog probably wont make it back to the kennel. I just got back into dogs I bought the Tri_tronics Ultra Trashbreakers with the two mile range. I will make sure before I hit one. I use it for handling more than anything. But if one is running a deer and I for sure know it. I will bring down the lightening on him. If it ruins the dog it ruins the dog and it will go on its merry way. Everyone that utilizes shock collars have to admit. The things are the best invention ever made. They save alot of lives which I had a post on. But dont abuse them, because they will ruin a dog in the hands of someone who does not know how to use them.
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Joe i have been around for a couple years, I was'nt talking about just the shock treatment, I was talking about the old time stuff um in a deer like you would stuff a turkey for thanks given.. To be real blunt.. I am sure pete knows just what i am talking about.....Wingpatch
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Phillip Smith
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Beagleman973
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:28 am
- Location: Southern Illinois
I've run 'em down and I've shocked 'em. I've had both work for me. The key and the most important point is........make absolutely sure it is a deer. If in doubt, wait another day, I've seen others ruin good hounds by "thinking for sure" they were on deer.
I do agree with Joe about leading them to a hot deer track, that sends conflicting signals. On one hand it must be ok, you led them there, then the next thing you know, POW, they're shocked or have the crap beat out of them.
Southern Illinois is known far and wide as one of the highest white tail deer populations in the midwest. You have to be able to break them. If I'm training and see deer I'll work them that way through cover until they hit the track. I mark where the deer went and then let nature take its course. If they leave it alone great, if not correction is in order! But it's done the natural way.
And I know about the other ways, the wet deer hide, the deer gland and the electrified fence. To me the best way is out in the field, let them come across it naturally, them whip or shock, whatever your preference.
There is a fine line between breaking a hound and ruining a hound. It's easy to go overboard. Many years ago when I started with hounds an old timer, gee maybe I'm starting to qualify for that, just not as wise as he was, gave me some advice I've always tried to follow. When you correct a hound from running deer, never, never do it out of anger. Don't let your temper get the best of you and let you go too far. If you do, you will cross that line between breaking and ruining the hound.
I do agree with Joe about leading them to a hot deer track, that sends conflicting signals. On one hand it must be ok, you led them there, then the next thing you know, POW, they're shocked or have the crap beat out of them.
Southern Illinois is known far and wide as one of the highest white tail deer populations in the midwest. You have to be able to break them. If I'm training and see deer I'll work them that way through cover until they hit the track. I mark where the deer went and then let nature take its course. If they leave it alone great, if not correction is in order! But it's done the natural way.
And I know about the other ways, the wet deer hide, the deer gland and the electrified fence. To me the best way is out in the field, let them come across it naturally, them whip or shock, whatever your preference.
There is a fine line between breaking a hound and ruining a hound. It's easy to go overboard. Many years ago when I started with hounds an old timer, gee maybe I'm starting to qualify for that, just not as wise as he was, gave me some advice I've always tried to follow. When you correct a hound from running deer, never, never do it out of anger. Don't let your temper get the best of you and let you go too far. If you do, you will cross that line between breaking and ruining the hound.
If you can't run with the BIG DOGS stay on the porch!
Re: ?
Phillp smith i know what you are saying,you would be surprized how many people do not know what there dogs are doing unless they see them.I have trouble at times to. peanut rollers that are not capable of running a jumped track are hard to tell for anyonewingpatch wrote:Good point you made. There is a big difference between knowing and thinking. And it helps being a little smarter than the dog. Just alittle comon since . Wingpatch
Phillip Smith: Many times I had thought the hounds were on deer judgeing by their voice and the manner in which they were running only to find out when I checked on them that they had rabbit. A long time ago I decided that if it sounded like deer I should check on them but to never assume anything until I see.
Wingpatch: No one, no matter how much experiance they have, can judge a hound performance by sound. While it's true that with your own hounds that you are highly familiar with you have a pretty good idea of what's going on by their voice most of the time it's also true that when you check on them you will from time to time find something you didn't expect. If you judge your hounds by sound then I can assure you that you don't know what you have. As far as peanut rollers goes I'm sure you would know more about that then I.
Wingpatch: No one, no matter how much experiance they have, can judge a hound performance by sound. While it's true that with your own hounds that you are highly familiar with you have a pretty good idea of what's going on by their voice most of the time it's also true that when you check on them you will from time to time find something you didn't expect. If you judge your hounds by sound then I can assure you that you don't know what you have. As far as peanut rollers goes I'm sure you would know more about that then I.
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West,, You are real quick To afine people that think different than you & and even faster to defind some real whakky ideas you have.. But i always try to give someone the benafite of dought. If you can not tell what your own dogs are doing by there voice you got a problem. As i have stated before i do no believe in shocking, whippen Or giving them the shaking beagle symdrom....Unless it is a set up deal
even seeing is not always believeing Have a nice day, anyone that even has beagles is ok in my book......Wingpatch
even seeing is not always believeing Have a nice day, anyone that even has beagles is ok in my book......Wingpatch
Wingpatch: Since you are used to judgeing what your hounds are doing by voice you can try a little experiment all on your own. Instead of judgeing them by voice judge them by useing a marked line. I guarantee you that you will witness many things that you never would know by just listening.
If judgeing what hounds are doing by a marked line makes someone whacky then I guess that's what I am. If you want to see just how whacky try it some time.
INcidentally disagreeing with you is not judgeing or defineing you it's disagreeing with you. I am judgeing and defineing your methods but not you personally. I'd much rather bump heads with you in an open and honest discussion of hounds then have you agree with everything I say when you don't beleive a word of it. You must however grow a thick skin for this type of discussion and stick to defineing your position and beleifs. In the end we might never agree but we'd both come out winners because we'd have the benefit of the others experiance.
If judgeing what hounds are doing by a marked line makes someone whacky then I guess that's what I am. If you want to see just how whacky try it some time.
INcidentally disagreeing with you is not judgeing or defineing you it's disagreeing with you. I am judgeing and defineing your methods but not you personally. I'd much rather bump heads with you in an open and honest discussion of hounds then have you agree with everything I say when you don't beleive a word of it. You must however grow a thick skin for this type of discussion and stick to defineing your position and beleifs. In the end we might never agree but we'd both come out winners because we'd have the benefit of the others experiance.
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MasonsBeagles
THought for the day
Well this one has gotten some mileage. Alot of disagreements. Each to his own.
Food for thought. Where I live the deer outnumber the rabbits in most places I run. I wonder how many times I have sicked my dogs into a briar patch in a wooded area and had deer run out the other side that I did not see. Luckily my hounds have the mental capacity to know that we are after little rabbits only.
Food for thought. Where I live the deer outnumber the rabbits in most places I run. I wonder how many times I have sicked my dogs into a briar patch in a wooded area and had deer run out the other side that I did not see. Luckily my hounds have the mental capacity to know that we are after little rabbits only.
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I guess i must of got lost here or something I thought we were talking about running deer.Any way you are right me you or no one could tell if the dog was running this line you talk about. But knowing the dog & knowing what he sounds like when he is running a rabbit And how he runs a rabbit , a man should know when he is running deer, trash.
I really can not understand how you can not.....Wingpatch
I really can not understand how you can not.....Wingpatch
Ralph can tell the difference most of the time - even with other folks' hounds. He's judged a lot of casts and could tell when they switched from rabbit to deer, or lit a deer up. He says it's not something easily described, you just know it when you hear it. You know it's not right.
A big hint-and-a-half for those that run more than one hound at a time: the pack goes screaming out and the deer-broke hound comes back tail-tucked. Best thing a person can do is have one bonified deer-broke hound in the pack. They are worth their weight in gold.
A big hint-and-a-half for those that run more than one hound at a time: the pack goes screaming out and the deer-broke hound comes back tail-tucked. Best thing a person can do is have one bonified deer-broke hound in the pack. They are worth their weight in gold.